To only get socially married?

[Enormousnamechange]

Hi all

So here's the thing - DP is ambivalent about getting married (he'd do it for me but equally if we never married he'd be just as happy), and I have come to realise that all the things I want from marriage come from the social side rather than the legal side if that makes sense. I'd keep my own name regardless, and can't have kids so we won't be having any of our own, and financially I'm in a much stronger position and will likely be for the rest of my life for one reason or another. From what I know so far, getting married would if anything being a bad idea for me.

But I'd feel so sad never being someone's wife, and to grow old watching my friends get married. Never getting to do the dress and have the party. Never being able to introduce this lovely man to people as my husband. Having everyone wonder why we never got married and if we were really committed. You get the idea. But these doesn't seem like good enough reasons!

I have wondered about doing everything except the legal bit, and as no one would think they were entitled to know my legal/financial situation in any other circumstance they wouldn't need to know here either. We would live our lives after the non-legally binding ceremony exactly like any other married couple. I suppose it could 'come out' if we were to split but not need to go through a divorce.

The thing is I've never ever heard anyone else even think about doing this? It seems to totally solve my problem but I also don't know how people would feel - would they feel betrayed and lied to? But equally I feel that the particular ways in which DP and I are legally bound to each other are not other people's concern. DP's views on this are that he's bought in whatever I'd like to do and he quite likes the idea of being socially not legally married.

But what do you think? Have I lost the plot? Would you be upset/annoyed/amused if you found out you'd been to a wedding of two people who weren't legally married?

YABU - No sham weddings please
YANBU - Seems harmless enough

For disclosure: I am married, with two children. I am not the breadwinner (not even close), and am several years younger. For me marriage got me a much better stake in our shared estate.

There's more to marriage than money.

@MintyCedric

And I don't just mean legal from a financial POV, but the security of having a legally recognised next of kin, someone who has the absolute right to be there for you and with you and advocate for you if necessary.

You create a LPA to cover someone looking after your medical and financial decisions if you can't.

Get married / civil partnership and have a pre nup? They may not be binding but they have an influence on a court if there’s divorce, most powerfully if there are no children.

You can’t have a fake wedding though.

My daughter and her husband had a beautiful wedding. Everyone was happy for them. Nobody worried about the signing of a register or the lack of officialdom. It was perfect, lots of people there to wish them well. My husband (stepdad) officiated with wording he had written. And each year they celebrate that anniversary. Four months later they had a quiet family register office wedding, followed by a picnic. But the first wedding was the real one.
If you want to do it, then you can let people know in the invitations (or not)
and not having the official bit gives you more freedom to be imaginative about your ceremony and times, etc.. You could get married in a field, or in the woods. You could do it in a hotel with the ceremony in the evening. You could do it in your garden. Choose someone to officiate. Have a hand-fasting. Whatever you decide, Have a wonderful day!

@DrSbaitso I am married with a child but I always had sympathy for the idea that I get more time and money spent on me than people who don't do those things.

This is not necessarily true. I am married with children and never had time or money spent on me by my friends/family for those reasons.

Not unreasonable to want a party and refer to your oh as husband. You can do that anyway.

Weddings are different though. People spend loads attending one - outfit, gift, travel etc so if you do this idea then try and minimize costs for the attendees because I think that people will be most annoyed by the time taken off etc

• I wish I didn't want the fairy tale wedding I was sold as a girl, it would make everything easier! I know you're not supposed to admit it on Mumsnet, and I don't want a big frock or a big party by any stretch, but I can't deny that I would like to get ready to marry DP with my best friend and my mum, and see him at the end of the aisle and get to promise to be with him always. I want to give those memories to my family who want those things for me as well. I'm torn between this and what I know is the safe, sensible choice and I'm trying to find a way to compromise between those two things.

So get married. It's not unsafe to do so, get a prenup if you want one. You want a wedding and to get married, so do it? I really have no idea why it needs to be so complicated and technical.

My ex husband did exactly this. Had a wedding and told everyone when they got there it wasn’t actually legal. His new “wife” had a pension from her late ex husband that would stop if she married again I believe.

@rosemary35

My first thought is you can’t do this. It would be lying to your friends and family, who would buy you wedding presents, along with new outfits for themselves/travel/time off work etc.

If you’re up front that it’s not a legal marriage, fine, but fewer people might show up.

When I go to a wedding I could not give two hoots about the legal contract they are entering into. It is a celebration of the couple's love, relationship. My cousin (post-invitations, so relatively last minute) could not legally marry in a church. They married at a registry office with two witnesses the morning of their wedding and everyone attending a blessing in the church, as if it was their marriage. Some knew before, some didn't, nobody cared.

However, you can't do it secretly. The celebrant has to be really upfront about how the ceremony is not legally binding.

I don’t think you’d get away with keeping it quiet. I got married last year. The number of people who have ordered our marriage certificate is insane. It seems to be a “thing” now, at least in some places...

Wtf. I am guessing this is a cultural thing? But why...??

OP I think a commitment ceremony/handfasting is by far your best option here.

Thanks again for all the points raised.

From those arguing that I'm missing out on legal protection here - what legal protection is that (assuming that our financial imbalance stays at it is and we both remain in good health)? At the moment it is my understanding that I am sharing and therefore risk losing my assets, but not gaining anything legally/financially other than NOK/his pension/marriage tax breaks? Would love more information on this as I would be open to changing my mind if this the case.

@81Byerley Nobody worried about the signing of a register or the lack of officialdom. It was perfect, lots of people there to wish them well. My husband (stepdad) officiated with wording he had written. And each year they celebrate that anniversary. Four months later they had a quiet family register office wedding, followed by a picnic. But the first wedding was the real one.

No, it wasn't. And you were all very lucky that neither of them died or experienced a life-changing accident or illness in the intervening four years.

You could get married in a field, or in the woods. You could do it in a hotel with the ceremony in the evening. You could do it in your garden. Choose someone to officiate. Have a hand-fasting. Whatever you decide, Have a wonderful day!

Marriage isn't about 'a [single] wonderful day', a dress, dragonflies, lakes, woods, ribbons, 'ceremonies personalised and tailored all about you'. That's just a big party, or a 'pageant' as someone said upthread.

Getting married is a legally and financially binding contract.

I wish I didn't want the fairy tale wedding I was sold as a girl, it would make everything easier! I know you're not supposed to admit it on Mumsnet, and I don't want a big frock or a big party by any stretch, but I can't deny that I would like to get ready to marry DP with my best friend and my mum, and see him at the end of the aisle and get to promise to be with him always. I want to give those memories to my family who want those things for me as well.

Life isn't a Hallmark card. And plenty of us have never bought into the 'fairytale wedding' crap. You don't want to marry him, and you're not actually willing to 'promise to be with him always'. You want to say words for 'the memories' that aren't in fact true. It couldn't be more dishonest, really.

On the other hand, if you are so sold on this Disneyfied idea, just get married. Why would you want to fake it instead?

I would like to get ready to marry DP with my best friend and my mum, and see him at the end of the aisle and get to promise to be with him always

And

absolutely we'd tidy up the legal loose ends to make sure we got the protection we both wanted

Eh? I don’t get this - you want to have a big party, wear a big dress, promise to be with him always, get legal protection that strengthens you position as a couple, but you don’t want to get married? And the only reason you can give is ‘in case it all goes wrong,‘ but you are sure it won’t? None of the other reasons you have given (such as current state of health or wealth) are good enough reasons, as they can change and wedding vows acknowledge this fact. The only thing I can conclude is that you are bonkers and want to be different for different’s sake. The ‘just a boyfriend’ thing is all in your head if you don’t want to get married. If anyone refers to someone as their partner, I assume there is a level of commitment there as an unspoken fact, I’d think they were mad if they held a party so everyone could see how ‘special but different’ they are from everyone else.

TBH I don't think I understand your problem. I have a friend who has been with her partner for probably 20 years, they have 2 kids, a house together and a dog and I see them as being just as committed to each other as a married couple. Have friends said something to you that's made you question your position?

For me marriage can be two things; a public display of your commitment (but is that really necessary if you feel secure in your relationship?) and a legal commitment. Whilst untangling things financially would be harder if you were married and the relationship ended, the pay off is that if one of you became seriously ill or died, financially things would be simpler.

Personally, if a friend was planning to pretend to get married, I wouldn't be offended, I'd just be a bit baffled! Not sure what to make of the wanting to able to call partner my husband or wife. Calling someone your partner is fine isn't it? Mostly I just refer to my DH by name anyway.

Having done the opposite (eloped, then had the party a decade later), I don't think it's an unreasonable choice for people aware of the legal differences and this is what the couple wants.

I know people who've had handfasting ceremonies, they can be lovely and I certainly wouldn't view them as fake. In some places, to have a religious ceremony or a ceremony outdoors, it has to not be legal and then you do the legal stuff behind the scenes and to me this is little different - you would just need to do different legal stuff. It has little impact on me whether it's a legal ceremony or not, it makes little difference to me what you call each other. The impact is all on you two.

Some of those I know married later but wanted a commitment event sooner for various reasons (ill relative they wanted to include, immigrating, just wanted it and then later decided they wanted to get married), it's not like this stops you from doing something different later if you wish.

How would you phrase the proposal to your boyfriend?

“Let’s pretend to be married but let’s forego the legal bit so that I can keep my assets and save the hassle of divorce down the line.”

Make sure to get down on one knee and get the candles out!

I have not rift so sorry if someone has already suggested this:
I think you should be perfectly open with friends and see if a church could arrange for a “special blessing” to celebrate your love for each other. Maybe have a lovely, but slightly different dress, do none of the ‘giving away’ business, and adapt your vows and prayers.

If you faked the whole thing though I think it might feel like a weight on the marriage and undermine it.

But again you are assuming that things will stay as they are.

They may. Or they may not.

If you don't want a lifetime commitment thats completely fine and a really valid choice.

But don't pretend and you can't call him your husband

I think this is quite offensive to your other half if I am honest. Like you want a husband but don't trust him not to run off with your cash. Just get a pre-nup if you are so worried.

If this is the person you truly love and want to spend the rest of your life with then why on earth don’t you just marry (with a pre nup if needed)
Personally I wouldn’t marry someone unless it was 100% what’s mine is theirs and what’s theirs is mine. Any money I had or he had would be put in a shared pot, even if it was vastly different. If I had any doubts about doing that, I wouldn’t be marrying him!
Of course sometimes things go wrong, but I wouldn’t be able to enter a marriage not 1000% trusting him with money and sharing of assets.
Probably just the situation I’m in so by all means set up some protection for yourself but this is perfectly doable before the wedding.
The other thing is, I would feel that every time someone referred to him as my husband, or being a wife etc I would feel a pang and twinge in the back of my mind of deception ‘he is not really my husband but let’s push that thought out’ kind of thing.
Wouldn’t want to live with the lie day in day out.
No matter what party you have, you will always be boyfriend and girlfriend, or partners. Never husband and wife

You can just have a party and wear white dress. Nothing is stopping you. But don't aell it as a wedding. Because it's not. Blessing, yeah.

The "I do" is the actual wedding. That's the commitment. Not the party

I don't understand this wedding not wedding stuff on MN.

From your further posts it actually sounds like you do want to get married but you are worried about the legal commitment.

Why are you worried, what do you think will happen? Are you scared that you won’t be able to walk away easily?

All of which is really normal by the way, and exactly why marriage is seen as a bigger commitment.

@Enormousnamechange

Thanks again for all the points raised.

From those arguing that I'm missing out on legal protection here - what legal protection is that (assuming that our financial imbalance stays at it is and we both remain in good health)? At the moment it is my understanding that I am sharing and therefore risk losing my assets, but not gaining anything legally/financially other than NOK/his pension/marriage tax breaks? Would love more information on this as I would be open to changing my mind if this the case.

I don't think you are missing anything.

But you both need wills. He would leave all to you and vice versa if that was your choices. You can each nominate the beneficiary of your pensions.

If you do not have wills, when you die , it is more complicated to share assets if there are other relatives who feel they have a claim.

The fault in your current thinking is that you would lose your assets if you married then divorced. Did you read my previous post?

If you marry and divorce, you would only lose your assets- the share of them- if your then ex chose to pursue you for his share. As he has said he won't do this, why do you doubt him?

How old are you both?

I'm not sure you should get married.

I'm admittedly a bit of a romantic, but your posts sound a little odd to me.

I didn't go into marriage too protect myself, but to give my husband the protection he deserves, and vice versa.

That your are thinking primarily of your assets and more about what would happen if you were to split than if your were to die or I've of your become ill, speaks volumes to me about how you expect this relationship to go. I'm a 'hope for the best plan for the worst' you're lesson, so I do get why it's a consideration, but this is also the person who you presumably love more then anyone in the world, and your want to plan your future, and love a fraud because your are more worried about seperating than things working out?

Marriage isn't able a pretty dress or fairytale day 🤮 but about combining your lives and being eachothers support for the rest of your lives. It makes you vulnerable as well as conferring protection.

If you want to call yourselves husband and wife, that's your choice, but you won't be if you specifically reject what that means.