To only get socially married?

[Enormousnamechange]

Hi all

So here's the thing - DP is ambivalent about getting married (he'd do it for me but equally if we never married he'd be just as happy), and I have come to realise that all the things I want from marriage come from the social side rather than the legal side if that makes sense. I'd keep my own name regardless, and can't have kids so we won't be having any of our own, and financially I'm in a much stronger position and will likely be for the rest of my life for one reason or another. From what I know so far, getting married would if anything being a bad idea for me.

But I'd feel so sad never being someone's wife, and to grow old watching my friends get married. Never getting to do the dress and have the party. Never being able to introduce this lovely man to people as my husband. Having everyone wonder why we never got married and if we were really committed. You get the idea. But these doesn't seem like good enough reasons!

I have wondered about doing everything except the legal bit, and as no one would think they were entitled to know my legal/financial situation in any other circumstance they wouldn't need to know here either. We would live our lives after the non-legally binding ceremony exactly like any other married couple. I suppose it could 'come out' if we were to split but not need to go through a divorce.

The thing is I've never ever heard anyone else even think about doing this? It seems to totally solve my problem but I also don't know how people would feel - would they feel betrayed and lied to? But equally I feel that the particular ways in which DP and I are legally bound to each other are not other people's concern. DP's views on this are that he's bought in whatever I'd like to do and he quite likes the idea of being socially not legally married.

But what do you think? Have I lost the plot? Would you be upset/annoyed/amused if you found out you'd been to a wedding of two people who weren't legally married?

YABU - No sham weddings please
YANBU - Seems harmless enough

I think people are holding up marriage as the great wonder of real commitment which would be credible if there weren’t so many bitter, backstabbing financially grabbing divorces

Nobody is.

In all honesty I hadn't considered the later life and death points. We're both very career focussed and because of that most of the time we look 4-6 years in advance rather than decades.

Then you wouldn't really be in a position to seriously consider marriage then anyway.

I know people do get married without thinking about this, but maybe thats part of the problem and why marriages don't last. Its forever. You are marrying to get old together (hopefully) 'until death us do part'.

I would say though that if you see it as a long term relationship then at some point - particularly if you are living together - you should still think about whats going on here.

You have issues with trust and aren't ready to offer him protections for life. Thats pretty bit.

Its fair enough in your twenties to an extent but don't let it become forever. Don't get caught up to much in the here and now and lose sight of what you want in the long term.

You do need to have a talk about legal protections for you both too at some point.

You either need to decide to get married or decide to have a much more dull conversation about long term commitment and what that entails legally without marriage. You ultimately might decide at that point that being married is preferable anyway but may not want the fuss of a wedding!

I know a lot of people have given you opinions one way or the other @Enormousnamechange. I'm coming at this from a different angle - you and your DP celebrating your relationship regardless of whether you marry or not.

Just a quick thought on this. My cousin and her DH have been married for 30 plus years. They celebrated their 30th with a huge party styled as a 'blessing' ceremony. However, they didn't have a celebrant - their son did a speech congratulating them at the beginning, they voiced their commitment to each other then we had a lovely meal and partied into the early hours. All of this was at a local very posh hotel. The point is that what goes on behind the doors of the party room, to a certain extent, is down to the people celebrating. If you want to celebrate a certain number of years together, have a speech by both of you committing to each other then have a party, do it. Word the invitations along the lines of 'X and I would love you to join with us as we celebrate 10 years of being together' You can put a note in saying you're going to do a 'non-marriage vows' commitment to each other and explain that you're not getting married but want to commit to each other publicly. Presents aren't needed, it's an anniversary or commitment party. Then get yourself a lovely dress, walk in together or on the arm of your dad or whoever and exchange your commitment vows. It's not legally binding, it's a declaration.

But yes, you do need to think about finances, issues around property and next of kin, who has power of attorney when you're older and may need it. As a very basic you should make sure you have wills and have taken legal and financial advice about assets.

You can very easily name your next of kin. More horror stories would definitely come from a messy divorce that the scenario you are planning. You feel that emotionally this man is a great option but financially he isn’t you can choose to protect yourself financially but still make a public commitment to him. Pre nups are notoriously hopeless when divorces actually happen so the best thing to do is not officially marry him. Someone still being in a serious financial mess in their early 30s would be a red flag for other future behaviours that might put me off but you will have a much easier out if that happens. I do think the wide eyed naive approach that most people have towards the financial aspects of marriage contributes enormously to the devastation when there is a horrible divorce. That being said once children are involved if one party is going to take a massive step back in their career, marriage is the best option but only because it forces financial embroilment. If you don’t have that in your plans what you would like to do is by far the best option. I don’t think it’s being cynical it’s being sensible. What do love and money actually have to do with each other? Yes you are promising to share everything but when people fall out of love it is absolutely the last thing they want to do which makes me think the two things should not be tied up together.

create a thing. be the first. like how Alice goes to an "unbirthday" party in wonderland, you should have an unwedding party. Be honest. Sell it as what it is - a commitment ceremony. Be upfront and i dont think people will mind. if you play it down i feel people may not come. give it a name and go big and they will.

Just get married.

@Carbara

No such thing as common law wife in the uk.

Oh, right. I didn't realise that.

What about a commitment ceremony or handfasting? No lying required. I really couldn't care less if an unmarried couple wanted to call each other husband and wife.

I think there are levels of commitment OP, and different circumstances impact that differently.

So - if you were both 25, starting out, with no assets at all and loved each other as much as you do now, if might be easier. Or if you were both 35, both owned your own houses with the exact same amount of equity and earned the same in your jobs. It is a different proposition to consider with different assets. Its much more of a thing if there are different approaches to money. I think you would need a greater level of commitment and trust to get married in your circumstances than in either of those. You do need to think about the ramifications more.

I will say, DH and I knew each other for 15 years when we got married. If we hadn't been planning children, we may have waited a bit longer. I think in your circumstances, there's nothing wrong with say, planning to have a big commitment ceremony to coincide with your 30th - you mention you're in your late 30s - and doing some investigating into the legal side of things and planning to legally marry at your 40th. Because I do think the more years you are into a relationship, the more your attitude to the future changes.

would rather avoid my specific relationship from this point.

But if this is not about the circumstances and emotions of your own specific relationship then what is it about?

@PollyThePony

You could have a religious or humanist ceremony without the legal bit as well, I would think? Or would that also throw up grey areas if you split and he wants your assets (god forbid).

There's no real grey area - if you're not married, neither party has a right to the other's assets.

@Enormousnamechange

I know there's no better way to rub people up the wrong way than this, but please try and bear in mind that this situation is all hypothetical at this stage, I haven't made any decisions and I'm just trying to figure out what the best options are for me and DP. I apologise if any of my comments have upset or annoyed people, and I fully support what ever choices other people would like to make. I am just feeling out what choice would be best for us.

I 100% accept that I WBU to have a fake wedding, and if I've made any decision at all it's that I won't be doing that! Thank you to everyone who helped me come to that conclusion.

As I mentioned earlier, it's massively thought-provoking and useful to have this discussion. I'm not trying to have a Disney sham wedding, or claim a level of respect for my relationship reserved for married couples, or anything along those lines. I love this man so much, I just don't want to gamble what I've worked so hard for when DP would be perfectly happy not to! I hope that makes sense.

OP, you asked a genuine question and sometimes this place can be a bit wild with the variety of response so thank you for being calm and respectful on the way you handled some of the not so helpful comments.

That's all. Good luck with what you decide to do. Just wanted to acknowledge your lovely manner.

I don't get the marriage is a bigger commitment idea. I'm married but I'd not think less of a long term couples commitment to each other because they didn't marry.

@Enormousnamechange fair enough- you’ll still probably get knocked on here by posters who haven’t RTFT. You might want to start a different thread 😂

I’m set to be in a similar position as you - high earner with assets. Marriage still protects independent women with assets simply because you don’t know what the future might bring. Either one of you might get sick with the other as carer. Or the other partner might become higher earner.

Marriage is a supposedly fair way of ensuring that the balance of changes etc are reflected automatically if you split. Compared to writing and rewriting wills. Also one of you can change wills at any time without the knowledge of the others.

The situation would be more different if there was marked inequality. People should obviously be compensated for assets gained during the marriage but they shouldn’t be entitled to family wealth. On the flip side if you’re that wealthy you can probably create a legally binding document of some sort that prevents your spouse from getting everything.

Ultimately you’re right about one thing. Trust is all important but at the point of divorce the person might not be the same one you married. People can change. There’s no harm in taking steps to protect yourself. But equally accept that marriage is inherently a risk and there has to be a base degree of trust to take it.

@Tittybittybangbang

Surely the legal bit is the part you want? That’s the bit that protects you.

Did you even read the OP?

@SomebodyThatIUsedToKnow3

I don't get the marriage is a bigger commitment idea. I'm married but I'd not think less of a long term couples commitment to each other because they didn't marry.

Well, a commitment is something you're tied into. Marriage is another layer of commitment, a further thing you'd need to unravel in order to split.

Could you have a commitment ceremony and just call it a commitment ceremony- no pretend wedding.

Lolasmiles Because the OP wants a pretend wedding that is the whole point of her thread and she has been slightly slammed and told a number of times that she should just get married. The fact is without children she would be better protected if she had a commitment ceremony that was about love and kept her finances separate. I also said that marriage is the best option if there are dependants like children but OP said that children are not part of their plans.

I have what I consider excellent, but intangible reasons for not wanting to be married. The idea of not marrying but still referring to your husband seems completely bizarre to me.

I’d decline the invite tbh, I’d find it a bit attention seeking and cringed.

Like vow renewals.

I think this sounds fine but I wouldn't lie about it. Have a non legally binding wedding, exchange vows and call him your husband. Say you're morally against the state s heavy involvement in romantic relationships. Think about it, isn't it at least a bit odd how your family structure needs to be okayed by the government? Fair enough when it was God doing the marrying, now it's just Keith from the council.

By the way I say this as someone who is getting married soon (legally, non religious ceremony) because that's right for us. I want to be recognised as married in the eyes of the law as well as the eyes of my social circle / each other. If the law part isn't important to you though there's no reason why you can't do the rest. Just own it, don't pretend it's a legal marriage.

I wouldn’t have a fake wedding. A commitment ceremony, maybe, if you want one.

I don’t get why you need to call him your husband. Nobody treats my partner with any less respect or sees our relationship as any less established or secure as if we were married. No one calls him my boyfriend, apart from me when I’m taking the piss.

Actually my partner is viewed as more significant than my ex husband and we had a HUGE in your face, tacky wedding so every bugger and his dog knew we were married. People still thought he was a prick because, well, he is.

DP and I are getting married for our own reasons, I know it won’t change how we are seen as a couple.

If you have a fake wedding your partner still won’t be your husband. That’s just a lie. If people are saying “when will you get married??” And putting you under pressure, tell them you’re happy as you are and it’s none of their bloody business.

@Tittybittybangbang

Surely the legal bit is the part you want? That’s the bit that protects you.

The lack of the legal bit would actually protect her from financial claims as she is the higher earner! Imagine if a man said the same, I earn more and don't want to be married.

The fact is without children she would be better protected if she had a commitment ceremony that was about love and kept her finances separate.

But no one who's read her OP is denying that. What people are pointing out as an oddity is that the OP wants a widespread social acknowledgement for a commitment she says that neither she nor her partner actually want to enter into. Fundamentally, they don't want to get married, either of them, but the OP also doesn't want to 'grow old without being a wife', doesn't want people to wonder why she and her partner aren't committed enough to be married, wants a dress and a party and to introduce her partner as her husband. It sounds weirdly like windowdressing.

I mean, I didn't want to get married to my DP at all, but as @BertrandRussell says, I didn't want the surface trappings of the marriage I didn't want either.

I've tried to be as reasonable as I can about this as I know it's an emotive topic but 10 pages in I am starting to struggle with essentially being called shallow and attention-seeking, and saying that I'm not committed to DP. That is all really hard to hear... would rather avoid my specific relationship from this point.

it's hard to hear because it's forcing you to look at it in the cold light of day and to acknowledge the reality, and the implications, of what you are saying about yourself, your partner and your relationship.

No one has been nasty or unkind or unreasonable in their responses to you. What posters have done is to draw out the meaning behind what you are suggesting. I expect that it is hard to hear, but that doesn't make it wrong.