To only get socially married?

[Enormousnamechange]

Hi all

So here's the thing - DP is ambivalent about getting married (he'd do it for me but equally if we never married he'd be just as happy), and I have come to realise that all the things I want from marriage come from the social side rather than the legal side if that makes sense. I'd keep my own name regardless, and can't have kids so we won't be having any of our own, and financially I'm in a much stronger position and will likely be for the rest of my life for one reason or another. From what I know so far, getting married would if anything being a bad idea for me.

But I'd feel so sad never being someone's wife, and to grow old watching my friends get married. Never getting to do the dress and have the party. Never being able to introduce this lovely man to people as my husband. Having everyone wonder why we never got married and if we were really committed. You get the idea. But these doesn't seem like good enough reasons!

I have wondered about doing everything except the legal bit, and as no one would think they were entitled to know my legal/financial situation in any other circumstance they wouldn't need to know here either. We would live our lives after the non-legally binding ceremony exactly like any other married couple. I suppose it could 'come out' if we were to split but not need to go through a divorce.

The thing is I've never ever heard anyone else even think about doing this? It seems to totally solve my problem but I also don't know how people would feel - would they feel betrayed and lied to? But equally I feel that the particular ways in which DP and I are legally bound to each other are not other people's concern. DP's views on this are that he's bought in whatever I'd like to do and he quite likes the idea of being socially not legally married.

But what do you think? Have I lost the plot? Would you be upset/annoyed/amused if you found out you'd been to a wedding of two people who weren't legally married?

YABU - No sham weddings please
YANBU - Seems harmless enough

Strikes me as a very weird idea. If you don't want to get married, just don't.

I can see you are thinking this one through in far greater detail than many of us do when we decide to either get married or stay in a relationship yet not married, but the 2 states of being are viewed as basically different things, both by society and the law. I think that in order to pick and choose which bits you like of being married or not married, you also have to accept that you will experience the downsides of marriage/not married. If you wish to be treated as a committed, permanent couple with all of the legal and societal recognition that brings - and the list is long and substantial in protection here, both for you and your partner - then marriage is the way to go. That’s not to say that you cannot do things to protect your pre-marriage assets, but I think you are being foolish if you don’t think your wealth or health will ever change, or your partner’s will ever change, and I think you are being callous if you assume you will always be the better off partner and don’t wish to provide him with the protections of marriage if something should happen to you. It seems very much as though you want to actually BE married with all of the recognition it offers but without shouldering the possibility your relationship might end at some point. If you are as committed as you say you are, the likelihood is that death will be the thing that ends your relationship, not divorce, and trust me on this - it’s far harder to negotiate a settlement that provides for you when the other person involved is dead than merely divorced! (Having first hand experience of dealing with a dead person who royally fucked up his relationship status right now. Once I wished he wasn’t dead so I could spend more time with him. Now I wish he wasn’t dead so I could ask him to unfuck things so I can get on with the much simpler job of just being sad about him being dead instead of dealing with endless paperwork and legal conundrums.)

@backinthebox

I can see you are thinking this one through in far greater detail than many of us do when we decide to either get married or stay in a relationship yet not married, but the 2 states of being are viewed as basically different things, both by society and the law. I think that in order to pick and choose which bits you like of being married or not married, you also have to accept that you will experience the downsides of marriage/not married. If you wish to be treated as a committed, permanent couple with all of the legal and societal recognition that brings - and the list is long and substantial in protection here, both for you and your partner - then marriage is the way to go. That’s not to say that you cannot do things to protect your pre-marriage assets, but I think you are being foolish if you don’t think your wealth or health will ever change, or your partner’s will ever change, and I think you are being callous if you assume you will always be the better off partner and don’t wish to provide him with the protections of marriage if something should happen to you. It seems very much as though you want to actually BE married with all of the recognition it offers but without shouldering the possibility your relationship might end at some point. If you are as committed as you say you are, the likelihood is that death will be the thing that ends your relationship, not divorce, and trust me on this - it’s far harder to negotiate a settlement that provides for you when the other person involved is dead than merely divorced! (Having first hand experience of dealing with a dead person who royally fucked up his relationship status right now. Once I wished he wasn’t dead so I could spend more time with him. Now I wish he wasn’t dead so I could ask him to unfuck things so I can get on with the much simpler job of just being sad about him being dead instead of dealing with endless paperwork and legal conundrums.)

Eloquently put, and I'm sorry you're in that situation.

Another thing - avoid going on holiday to anywhere like Dubai. They will not actually care how big a party you had to show your commitment or if you call yourself husband and wife. If you are not legally married, you could find yourself in very hot water if someone thinks you are presenting yourself as husband and wife. Not necessarily right (and many Middle Eastern attitudes are wrong towards women) but it does show that marriage is the recognised method of a man and woman expressing a commitment to live together for the duration of their lifetimes.

I think saying we only get married for the legal protection is a bit cynical. Not saying that's not a reason but it's hardly the only reason. I'm in a stronger financial position to my husband and he's self employed so I bring the security. But I never looked at it like that. I didn't have a big wedding either, small and intimate. I like that he's my husband and I like that we both have the same surname. It was right for us to do it but it's up to you in the end. My MiL has always said you'll work more on a marriage that you would co-habiting and though at first I thought that was very old fashioned I don't think she's wrong. Now please note I'm NOT talking about women holding on in abusive relationships I'm just talking about healthy relationships as you deal with the many trials of life-family bereavements, baby loss (which we like many others have suffered), stress, housing issues etc.

Not sure if this has already been said as not read it all but I think there could be an issue withhaving a commitment or anniversary party.
I’ve found that people may make less effort to attend/not take it quite as seriously as a wedding. Family abroad have travelled over for weddings but when a real to be invited them to a Anniversary celebration/not legal wedding they said”it’s a long way to come for just a party”.
Worth bearing in mind

Plenty of people have a ceremony and aren't actually married. Do it.

I kind of get where you're coming from. Dh and I were together for 15 plus years before we got married (brexit was the deciding factor). We lived together, had children together and were in a solid relationship, but never felt the need to get married.

But it was often awkward to know how to refer to him. "My boyfriend" sounded like someone I'd been with a few moths, "my partner" made most people assume I was in a same sex relationship, "my better half" is just cringe, etc.

I think you should get legal advice on protecting your assets in case of the relationship breakdown if you do choose to get married. Prenups tend not to be totally binding but often it's the case that circumstances have changed since the couple got married (e.g. They'll have had dc and the judge will take this into account, but this won't be the case for you). There are befenfit to marriage, especially legal ones in medical settings, etc.

Speak to a solicitor to get some advice. But I'd say absolutely go for it - either have a proper legal wedding or celebrate your life together by having a massive commitment ceremony where you wear the dress, eat the cake and enjoy a massive party with your friends and family. After more than a year of lockdown most people will be delighted go out and have a fun day. Don't lie to your friends and family, but don't let all the negative comments put you off having a public ceremony to honour your relationship.

I haven’t got through all twelve pages yet op, but wanted to say I am in the same boat as your original post. I have a house and other assets, my bf doesn’t, and I would not want to split anything if we married and subsequently split. However, we are knocking on a bit now and I don’t really want to be bf and gf as we slide into decrepitude, lol. I would rather be married - as would he. But one costly divorce is enough so not sure how we will proceed. Will read all twelve pages of this with interest!
Interestingly, I have friends who did the opposite - got divorced and didn’t tell anyone - still in a relationship, still live together, call each other husband/wife, etc - but that’s another story…

@MizMoonshine

Plenty of people have a ceremony and aren't actually married. Do it.

They don’t then pretend to be married and call their partner their husband.

backinthebox- Sorry you are going through that too. I had a similar situation when my mum died with no will it was months and months sorting out probate and it was so much on top of all the grief. My mum had also been through a hideous divorce and ended up homeless when we were young so my views on marriage is somewhat coloured by that. I am married myself though, so ever hopeful.

Seems completely pointless to me, marriage is a legal commitment and there is no such thing as a social marriage. If you and your DP are happy the way things are then why are you so bothered about other people recognising your commitment to each other?

Lolasmiles Because the OP wants a pretend wedding that is the whole point of her thread and she has been slightly slammed and told a number of times that she should just get married.
I know the OP wants a pretend wedding, part of which is down to wanting a party and memories and because family want it. They've even mentioned the need for the engagement not to b a surprise but the proposal would be (aka I want a ring and a nice story but there isn't actually a proposal of marriage).
At the end of the day, if the OP is happy in a long term, committed, unmarried cohabiting relationship then why doesn't she just own that? It sounds like she's awfully bothered about what other people think, the parties she should have etc.

Jeez, just get married.

I could barely utter the H word for years after I got married. It:s still better to have a public declaration of love and commitment than some woo woo handfasting. Plus the legal stuff is much easier.

Hmmm I suspect if the partner genuinely wanted to marry the op she’d be up the aisle before anyone could say congrats. Ans this whole I e come to realise nonsense is because he doesn’t want to, and now she’s looking to pretend she is getting married as a compromise.

To summarise, you want to call your boyfriend your husband but you don’t want to be legally married because you stand to lose half your financial assets.

If this was a man posting that he doesn’t want to marry his girlfriend because he will lose half his assets ....

You can’t have your cake and eat it.
Either marry him to achieve the husband status and prepare to share your finances as well as your life.

Or Don’t marry him, you can only call him boyfriend hereafter, and you get to keep all your money.

You just want the status without the financial outlay.

But what do you think? Have I lost the plot? Would you be upset/annoyed/amused if you found out you'd been to a wedding of two people who weren't legally married?

I'd think it was a bit bonkers but wouldn't be upset/annoyed or amused.

I know plenty of couples in their 50s and beyond who aren't married; their relationship isn't any less because they aren't married. I'd argue you could say it is strong because they simply chose to stay together every day.

Marriage in it's current form is very patriarchal and personally I hope it eventually dies out sooner rather than later, especially the tradition of the groom asking the bride's father for permission shudder.

YABU.

Either get married or don’t. There’s no such thing as ‘socially married’.

@LolaSmiles

I think people are holding up marriage as the great wonder of real commitment which would be credible if there weren’t so many bitter, backstabbing financially grabbing divorces It's not a great wonder of real commitment, but it is a greater level of legal commitment than cohabiting and no amount of name changes, fake proposals, pretend wedding days, calling each other husband and wife whilst being unmarried changes that, nor do the existence of divorces change that.

Many people have very happy, loving, successful, unmarried cohabiting relationships with their partners for decades, some marriages end after a year. They are legally different though and when people pretend otherwise we get threads where posters in precarious financial positions are told not to worry about marriage because "we've been happily together for 14 years and all the marriages we know ended within 3, you don't need marriage for commitment hun, you know if he is a good man".

Why does the OP need a pretend wedding if they're happy being a financially separate, happy, loving, unmarried couple?

OP Your thread was about protecting yourself legally whilst being in long term relationship you see as akin to being married but don't want to be married legally.

People have replied about the legal implications and things you need to consider and are saying that perhaps you idea of being 'the same as married' isn't in reality the same as being married and what you are saying raises some questions about whether you trust your partner and how much have you thought about the future.

These are pretty important grown up questions about commitment. You dont get to run away from them if you dont like them.

Thats kind of the point. You don't seem to be at the 'ever after bit' happily or otherwise.

@Hobnobsandbroomstick Marriage in it's current form is very patriarchal and personally I hope it eventually dies out sooner rather than later, especially the tradition of the groom asking the bride's father for permission shudder.

My husband didn't ask my father's permission. I didn't ask his father either.

I'd be interested to know which aspects of my marriage you'd describe as 'very patriarchal'. I don't believe there are any.

OP, I think it's good that you're taking on board everyone's comments.

Having read your latest posts, in your position, at your age I would honestly not get married yet. Learn not to give a shit what others think of your choices, let your partner pay off his debts and make his financial position more stable and then maybe think again. Life changes all the time, maybe one day you'll both want to get married, maybe you won't. Being able to call someone husband or wife is honestly a really small thing in the scheme of things.

Lolasmiles I agree with you in so many ways I do think the OP is very bothered by what other people think and I wonder if there has been a flurry of engagements at her work that has prompted this. It feels very like living a photoshopped life. There is a large amount of naivety in her approach which makes me feel she is a bad candidate for a successful marriage at this stage in her life and it would be a lot more sensible to swish around in a floor length dress and celebrate the love relationship that she currently has. The harder lessons of life hopefully tend to happen to us later and she has time in the future to rethink her plans as she learns more life lessons.

I haven't RTFT through.

But the basic objections seemed to be:
Marriage is a legal contract. Yeah, but not to you. You do not want or need the legal contract. You want a social acknowledgement of your importance to each other. It won't be valid at border crossings or hospitals, but you know that.

You would be lying. Sure, but what's the problem with that? Every wedding I have been to could have been like this, and how would I know? Why would I care? The couple's financial arrangements and legal status are their business. The only part of someone else's marriage that I experience IS the social side.

Go for it, OP. Enjoy.

I think the issue is that you are getting married for emotional reasons - and marriage has been sold to us using emotional language, but actually it isn't an emotional contract, its a legal contract. And in your particular case its a legal contract that you don't need, and is against your best interests.

People saying it gives you legal protection come across as a bit hard of understanding since that's only if you have less assets or children.

So what you're giving up in not getting married, isn't marriage itself, its the 'dream' of marriage that is used to sell the legal contract to us.

Yes, saying 'my husband' does feel nice for the first few years, but it wears off, and the complications of leaving a marriage are really crap.

@SeaShoreGalore

People saying it gives you legal protection come across as a bit hard of understanding since that's only if you have less assets or children.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

Or have any belongings when you die. Or live in a house or flat which you rent or own. Or get ill. Or want to live/work abroad. Or have a pension. Or pay tax...

But yeah, other people are 'hard of understanding'.