Off hand comment by stranger

[LiJo2015]

Ill keep it short. I met a friend yesterday for coffee. As i was stood there with my 8 month old in a sling jigging her to sleep, another mum with a baby in a sling came to sit down, with i presume her mum and dad. I said hello and acknowledged her baby in the sling - we talked a little and her mum commented about her daughter (the mum with a baby in the sling) was a doctor at the local hospital. As an ex-trainee doc myself i asked which med school she went too. I then responded i was no longer training. Her mum commented what a waste of tax payers money.... it is this last comment that stuck with me and has upset me and made me angry.

Leaving medicine was one of the hardest decisions i have ever had to make and the decision was forced really owing to a complete lack of empathy and support from the medical school owing to ongoing mental health difficulties i was facing. All 'support systems' they put in place only made matters worse for me. In my penultimate year, i pulled the plug.

So aibu and just overthinking this off-hand comment or was this stranger just thoughtless? Or both perhaps?

[Traveller3367]

Can someone provide figures about how much tax payers money is used?
I have lots of doctor friends and constantly hear the taxpayer: tuition fees debate

[BIoodyStupidJohnson]

@Traveller3367

Can someone provide figures about how much tax payers money is used?
I have lots of doctor friends and constantly hear the taxpayer: tuition fees debate

This is a bit old (2016) but it gives an idea.

[BIoodyStupidJohnson]

OP I'm not normally a 'life gives you lemons make lemonade' type of person but it strikes me that as a trainee psychotherapist this otherwise horrible comment might make an interesting case study! As in why do total strangers psychologically 'shift' their opinions onto others.

[HoppingPavlova]

'It is a waste of tax payers money' this comment puts the blame on the trainee and not the trainer. Docs have one of the highest rates of mental health issues, addictions, burn out, relationship breakups - there is a very good reason for this and it is not the doctor themselves.

That’s not correct. That statement does not put the blame on the trainer. It’s a statement that actually doesn’t necessarily even cast blame, you are ascribing that to it. It’s just a statement of fact. It’s true. It does not indicate you are to blame, or the institution or the system. Ascribing blame is something else again that is not done in that statement and you have just run with.

I understand the issues associated with ensuring the right people are selected for the degree, the issues associated with training and with life in the profession. It’s multifactorial.

I trained with people who subsequently went off quickly to become musicians, journalists etc. The statement that it was a waste of taxpayers money is completely true. Didn’t mean that they are to blame at all though.

[Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov]

Her comment gives no indication to where the blame is. My friend is retraining from being a doctor and I think it's a complete waste. Of talent. It's a disgrace. She is an excellent doctor- everything you would want but the system is such a joke that she can't cope anymore, I assume the NHS is similar. So I think it's an absolute waste of tax payers money but not because my friend has made the decision to leave- she loved her work. I imagine with her daughter being a doctor she has more insight into the system than most. At the end of the day you can manage your own reactions and if she said those words than it's you assuming the blame is on you.

[Glintwithpersperation]

Her comment says more about her than about you, you having nothing to be sorry for or to feel bad about. She was shaming you and it only worked because you do feel a little bit of shame. I highly recommend Brenee Browns first book I thought it was just me.

[ChairmansReserve]

You seem unreasonably invested in identifying yourself as something you are not: a doctor.

You are also extremely harsh and unfair on other people who do choose to become doctors. How horrible to react like that to your friends' news about their children.

I'm sorry that you had a poor experience and didn't continue with your training, but that does not mean that it's OK for you to denigrate an entire profession in this way.

I have known many doctors who are very empathetic and kind, as well as many who are not.

It is bizarre to invest your identity so heavily in something that you are not, to share that information with strangers, and then to get so upset when they respond to that information.

[BogRollBOGOF]

@LiJo2015

Thankyou for your kind replies.

I left in 2016. I have just started to retrain as a psychotherapist. I know this is better for for my personality and skill base whilst also providing a flexible work-life balance and autonomy in my work. I lost my mum when i was 2 and part of me desperately wants to be the one caring for my kids - especially my now daughter.

Its interesting that someone posted about not telling people private info - this i think is good advice. But i know i am compelled to tell people what i used to do as i know my sense of self worth and identity was so tightly wound up in becoming a doctor. I do still have a strong sense that i failed. I know in everyday conversation where something like this comes up part of me just tells my story as in a natural exchange but also in a way to feel that little bit worthy? Does that make sense?

You haven't failed. You've had a learning experience to direct you towards a less obvious path, and are making choices for your family's circumstances.

I'm still rankling over a stupid conversation 8 years ago while pg and very clearly struggling with SPD. I wasn't working at the time because supply teaching and SPD were not compatible and this silly woman got all sanctimonious because she'd worked right though her 3 pregnancies while wearing a lead apron as a radiographer. Whoopie for her
I wish my long term memory put itself to more productive use

My career has ebbed and flowee around family life. Currently on a long term pause due to childcare/ SNs. It's not a waste of money or failiure, just making the most of life's circumstances.

[badacorn]

If my mum said that to a random stranger I’d wonder if she was hitting the bottle.

OP I think you know what she said wasn’t true but it hurts to be accused of something bad nonetheless especially if it’s tied up to a rough time in your life.

I’ve met lots of doctors, some chose not to work for the NHS, others went abroad at the earliest chance they got, some -shock horror- have children so work part time. I’ve heard the view that it’s a waste to train female doctors at all because more likely to work part time. Some people have strong opinions about this and sometimes they’re full of shit, so just ignore them.

[LiJo2015]

Thankyou to everyone that has replied. I have read everyone and all opinions are welcome and definitely give me something to ponder. I grew up in an extremely abusive household and getting into medical school was massive, especially as i did so from mainstream without the usual family history and intensive schooling. I felt i had acheived something. Growing up, me being me, was not enough, so medicine gave me that something. I am bitter about how i was treated, made worse by the memories of some appalling attitudes demonstrated by my peers and yet they got through because they were the 'right type'. I recognise that i flog myself and still have a peg on my own shoulder about this. Im working on it, well trying too.

[Sevensilverrings]

I wonder what her daughter thought? (And perhaps who the comments were aimed at)? She’s now a mum with a young child. Everyone who has a child and stressful full on job thinks about their choices. Clearly this mum is not going to be supported if she wants to be a SAHM for instance!? At least you only had to put up with the horror of a woman for a few minutes I suppose! Can you imagine her as a parent or grandparent?!?
As for your plan, well done. You’ve put yourself on a path that will make you happier, and more able to parent in the way you’d want. That’s not any sort of failure. I’m sorry you weren’t supported while training. It’s a brutal horrible system at times, and medical training has a terrible record for supporting trainees. But we all get to change directions, even medical students! Also, the experience and the trauma, and what you have learned about yourself, will all feed into your ability to be a good, well rounded therapist. I wish you every success, and enjoy your little girl!

[Beautiful3]

Next time dont tell people that you had trained to be a doctor, as it's always going to end in, "I didn't complete it, I'm not a doctor" leaving you feeling negative. Just say nothing and smile. Mental health is important. Don't feel that your job status defines you. You are you, regardless of job/lack of job. Employed people are not better than homeless people, and doctors are not better than factory workers.

[LiJo2015]

@ChairmansReserve

You raise an excellent perspective. I do feel though the medical training process is punitive and limited in terms of human health and the lived experience and this very process renders many doctors impotent when its comes to empathy. This thread has already highlighted docs leaving the profession and i know personally of many more. I also know that the number one reason for litigation is because of lack or good and empathic communication. This is by no coincidence and i believe occurs directly because of how and what docs are treated and trained.

[LiJo2015]

@Beautiful3

🌷

[AmyDudley]

Don't let it upset you - she doesn't know your circumstances. I actually think being able to say 'This is not for me, I am not being supported, I am going to go in a different direction' takes great courage and self knowledge - good for you for looking after yourself and doing what you needed to.

As an aside - I often find that with a bit of probing people who spout 'What a waste of tax payers money' turn out not to pay any taxes !

[Childofdivorcee]

Other people’s comments about you are nearly always about making them feel better about their own lives.

Take a breather, write a list of your achievements, where you are going and remember her fondly when you have a client in the future that needs help with a mother living vicariously through them

[LiJo2015]

@Childofdivorcee 🤣 good point and noted.

[WrapUpWarm2021]

That's unbelievable to say to anyone. To a stranger in a coffee shop it's really odd.

[ChairmansReserve]

@LiJo2015 I also know that the number one reason for litigation is because of lack or good and empathic communication. This is by no coincidence and i believe occurs directly because of how and what docs are treated and trained.

Sorry, what? In what sense is 'litigation' (strange word to use in the UK) primarily caused by 'lack of empathic communication'?

You posted a thread appearing to be about a conversation you had with a stranger. But as the thread continues, you seem to be more and more concerned with pursuing a vendetta against the medical profession.

There's something very strange about all of it.

[Viviennemary]

The person had a point. You took up a much sought after place then dropped out.

[DotBall]

I agree with AmyDudley in that pulling out, regrouping yourself and heading in a different direction takes strength of character, even if it doesn’t feel like it at the time.

We are often so duty-bound based on background experiences that to not complete something is seen as failure, which is wrong.
I gave up all management responsibilities in work after serious ill health and went back to being a classroom teacher, and my DC left uni twice before finishing and is now doing well in a job sector they would never have imagined working in 5 years ago.

However, my DM sees all this as ‘failure’. I see a much happier me and a much happier DC. Good luck to you, be at peace with your decisions.

[DotBall]

The person had a point. You took up a much sought after place then dropped out

...maybe, but life is short enough without being unkind to each other. Circumstances can change over a long degree course.

[LiJo2015]

@Viviennemary you imply a choice. I had no choice. Support was and still is abysmal.

[SmokedDuck]

I think that's shockingly awful. There are all kinds of reasons out of a person's control they might not have finished medical school.

However, I usually choose in these instances to assume the person did not mean to be awful and is just socially inept. There are people who might say something like that with no intent to disparage, they are just commenting on the situation in what they see as a relevant and objective way. This one is particularly pointed, but some people are particularly clueless, so who knows.

[ChairmansReserve]

@LiJo2015 Could you post your source for

I also know that the number one reason for litigation is because of lack or good and empathic communication

please?