To think most parents don't really give a crap about this...

[reaching0ut]

....as long as their kid isn't the one being bullied or ostracised? I think at some point when everything is rosy many parents profess to feel this way, but actually they're totally oblivious or thanking their lucky stars that it's not their child coming home in tears, not sleeping, eating and feeling generally worthless and hopeless.

I find it incredible that anyone could reach adulthood without being able to grasp what is pretty obvious to most people, unless they've lived a very sheltered existence - that kids absolutely can be vile.

You know we have all been a child, don't you? We know other kids can be vile! Every child has experience nasty teasing, exclusion, bullying at some point or another. That's life. It doesn't mean I encourage or tolerate for mine to do it.

I'm so glad my DD's teacher wasn't like you. She did not make excuses or defend the kids who treated my daughter in that way.

great, as she was supposed to do her job and sort the situation out immediately.

I stand by my point, kids need to learn to stand up for themselves before anything else.

I'd be more puzzled than anything if the best a teacher could come up with about one of mine was "X is kind and considerate". Well, great, they should also be polite but are they so behind you can discuss anything else?

Not true for us, we expected the kids to try hard, but the stuff we marked with a highlighter and stuck to the fridge (our family communication board) was reports that said something about their social/emotional stuff.

I'm bothered about effort, not results. Being academically gifted is great but not for everyone. Being a kind and considerate human being however is.

"My kids are not academically gifted nor do I think it's any of my business how they arrange their friendships at school, as long as they aren't actively unkind.

I don't think we should interfere."

This attitude is probably why my son got invited to two birthday parties for the whole of primary school. Luckily it changed when he moved up and found his group of friends. I did speak to a mother after her son had a birthday party and invited all but two boys in the class (mine being one of them). She said that she had left the invite list up to her son and it wasn't intentional, she said he just invited the kids he had a connection with.

I had no real friends for a lot of secondary school and I still remember the small amount of other students who were kind to me. Most people were indifferent.

I always tell my children to watch out others who might be lonely or having difficulties - but at the same time, I can’t expect them to save others.

no one could force me to invite someone I dislike to my birthday parties or my wedding (MIL excepted possibly ) , why on earth should I be an hypocrite and force my kids!

I have an issue with this statement.
So ... what thsi meme is saying is that, as parents, we should teach our dcs to look out for other kids. How is that supposed to happen, what would say to your child?
To go and sit with the child who is alone, despite the fact they want and have planned to sit with their friend (s)? Aka to put their own needs amd wishes aside for someone else.
To go and sit with a child wo knowing if that child actually WANTS someone to sit with them? I mean they could be shy and not wanting someone next to them. They could have ASD and Nat to be alone to recover from the morning. They could have had a really bad news and wants some privacy. How is the child going to know of any of those apply?
Nd that’s wo talking bit the fact your child might well not get on well with the one who is alone, might have been on the receiving end of some crap from them. Etc...

Basically it’s asking CHILDREN to do something very few adults would ever do, out of embarrassment or because they know it might well not be well received.
Why we are expecting children to behave better and be more mature than adults, it escapes me tbh.

How much you care about your dc's academic achievement has literally nothing to do with whether you care if they are kind to the lonely child.

Also there is a big difference between bringing your child up to be kind and telling them they need to befriend children they do not want to ve friends with. My 15yo dd's friendship group has a reputation for absorbing the new kids and sometimes kids who don't seem to have a group to belong to. But that's their choice. I would not tell my children they have to befriend anyone.

I don't know about anyone else but I do know that I would be completely furious and beyond upset if my DC took part in bullying. I also always encourage my DC to be kind and inclusive and to try to be brave enough to stand up for others. Up to now it's worked. Fingers crossed it continues to.

All three of my kids are kind but I don't want them feeling responsible for other children socially.

Adults are allowed to choose their friends and hang out with those we have a connection with, why should kids be different?

Obviously kindness is more important, but most kids in my DC's class are kind and only my DC is behind in every single thing from writing to speaking to riding a bike and seemingly everything else. You're right, it's easy to say when your DC is doing well or average.

Actually dd had a friend who was like this early secondary. She would be all mother Theresa and invite any child who was alone to be with their group. Which was lovely but she would then skip off leaving dd1 and the others to “host” these kids that they weren’t really friends with and were often quite difficult/ not children the others would have chosen to spend time with. It seemed kind but the others in the group got fed up with it after a while.

It's both for me too. I won't deny that I care about academics but I also want to raise well rounded children and recognize that relationships play a huge part in that and I would also hate to see a child bullied/left out so encourage my DDs to be inclusive and kind. I was the type to befriend the slightly "odd" child at school and it sometimes comes at a personal cost so I would also hope to instill strong boundaries in my DC as I didn't have those and would sometimes be drained by friendships that became too intense/possessive. Balance as in most cases is important to aim for.

@MiddleParking that's my point. I was always interested in how they were all doing academically up until that point. I don't care anymore because they clearly didn't care about my child. It's no real issue- I just give my time elsewhere these days.

I agree with the sentiment, maybe not the specific example as it seems a bit patronising. I just had my ds's parents' evening and he was average for all academic areas. However she did say he was the kindest and most polite and well behaved in the class and that makes me very proud. I always want my children to achieve their potential but am far more interested in their character to be honest. I believe that being a kind person usually leads to having a happier life anyway.

@wesowereonabreak

no one could force me to invite someone I dislike to my birthday parties or my wedding (MIL excepted possibly ) , why on earth should I be an hypocrite and force my kids!

Agreed, but if there are 15 boys and you invite 13 that is just unkind. Would you invite all your bookclub members to your party except one, knowing that you will talk all about it in front of that one?

If he had invited 8 boys or even 10 it would not have been a big deal.

Those are conversations I had with my kid. You can't invite all the class except that one kid you don't like. If you don't want that one kid that is fine, but you can't invite the whole rest of the class if so.

@CovidSmart

I have an issue with this statement. So ... what thsi meme is saying is that, as parents, we should teach our dcs to look out for other kids. How is that supposed to happen, what would say to your child? To go and sit with the child who is alone, despite the fact they want and have planned to sit with their friend (s)? Aka to put their own needs amd wishes aside for someone else. To go and sit with a child wo knowing if that child actually WANTS someone to sit with them? I mean they could be shy and not wanting someone next to them. They could have ASD and Nat to be alone to recover from the morning. They could have had a really bad news and wants some privacy. How is the child going to know of any of those apply? Nd that’s wo talking bit the fact your child might well not get on well with the one who is alone, might have been on the receiving end of some crap from them. Etc...

Basically it’s asking CHILDREN to do something very few adults would ever do, out of embarrassment or because they know it might well not be well received.
Why we are expecting children to behave better and be more mature than adults, it escapes me tbh.

I don't think it is saying that you should do that all the time for all of your free time. I also don't think it is saying that you should plop yourself down without asking.

I think it is saying that sometimes you should spend five minutes noticing and being kind to someone who is being left out IF they want to do that.

e.g. "would you like to eat together today?" your kid can still go play afterwards with their friends, it would be what, ten minutes out of their day once a week?

It doesn't really even need to be that. Someone once told me (years later) that when they were new I picked up a book they dropped and gave it back to them with a smile and they always remembered that. I don't remember that at all, apparently it made an impact on them.

Would you invite all your bookclub members to your party except one, knowing that you will talk all about it in front of that one?

I probably wouldn't, but ONLY because resentment from others could turn them against me and make me look like the bad guy.

If I have a valid reason, I have no issue keeping one person away.

And that's what I explain to my kid, that you can't seem to be the bad guy for your own benefit.

Yes but picking a book that has been dropped is different. It’s normal behaviour.

It’s not going out of your way like anyone would if you were going to a different table, telling the friends you were with that you might not eat with them, ask the person who is alone if you are happy for you to sit with them etc...

@MrsBobDylan

All three of my kids are kind but I don't want them feeling responsible for other children socially.

Adults are allowed to choose their friends and hang out with those we have a connection with, why should kids be different?

This.

It leads to resentment and problems in it own way.

As for the whole thing about you SHOULD invite everyone in the class. To hell with that!

Inviting kids to parties is expensive. No one is obliged to invite anyone.

The whole invite the whole class thing is nonsense and ridiculous. And it can be problematic if its at a venue with a set limit.

Not only that, but if there's a little shit in the class who has form for upsetting my kid or they have nightmare parents, I'm not going to 'take the moral high ground' just so no one is left out. If I'm being responsible for that kid for any period of time or it might mean the rest of the kids have a shit time or it creates problems. Damn straight DS can invite 14 out of 15 in those circumstances and I wouldn't have an issue. The automatic assumption here is that the left out child is just a nice lonely and a victim rather than a kid who has a habit of causing issues who has managed to alienate all the other kids for good reason.

Its this whole victim culture where you have to be nice which fails to acknowledge that life often isn't like that and perhaps its a bit more complex than that in reality.

I'm sorry but there's being kind but there's also looking after the well being of yourself (or your kid) and its ok to consider that rather than this mindless 'be kind' crap which fails to admit that this can lead to you being a doormat to people who don't give a shit about you and take advantage of the zombie thinking.

Also being asked to have x tag along so he's not left out, isn't necessarily going to solve underlying problems if they don't fit in with that particular group. They are still not going to be fully included because they are a square peg in a round hole - and that kid will be often aware of that more than anyone else.

Other people are not responsible for the social life of others. Some people just don't fit in. And thats ok. Perhaps we should be teaching kids its ok NOT to fit in and to be a misfit? You aren't a failure if you aren't in a gang. You just are different and that should be celebrated in its own right.

Maybe we should be finding ways for those kids to connect with others who they do have things in common with rather than the ones that they just happen to go to school with.

Maybe we should stop framing being on your own as 'bad' and a 'failing'. Maybe THATS the issue really.

Apparently it isn't normal behaviour if it left an impression that lasted years.

There are structural and organisational changes which schools could make to reduce ostracization and bullying.

When I was at primary school, we sat with our class teacher for meals and had set places. No discussion, no one sitting on their own. The whole class sat together in places allocated by the teacher. At secondary school, our headmaster implemented a policy of having to sit in the next empty seat on the tables assigned to your year group. Again, no discussion and no worry about where to sit. You got your food and took it to the next empty seat in your year's area and sat down.

Break times are another "pressure point" for certain children. There are ways that schools could address this. At primary school, more structure and range is needed in terms of activities rather than allowing a free-for-all. At secondary, solitary children really need a place to hide out which makes them less visible as being on their own and where they feel safe. Some schools already provide this in the form of clubs and study spaces.

You can't force children to make friends and some will naturally be better at it than others. However, since solitary children are legally obliged to spend a large amount in a school environment, schools should spend some time thinking of ways to make it less stressful for them. As adults, we are allowed to leave situations in which we don't feel comfortable but that does not apply to children.

"Damn straight DS can invite 14 out of 15 in those circumstances and I wouldn't have an issue. The automatic assumption here is that the left out child is just a nice lonely and a victim rather than a kid who has a habit of causing issues who has managed to alienate all the other kids for good reason."

So my particular kid... he has ASD and the popular boy in the class (and more to the point his mother... chair of the parent-teacher assoc, class mum etc) decided they didn't like my kid. That kid bullied my kid and made other kids otrascise mine.

Yes my kid was decidedly quirky and awkward, he had his part to play, he didn't blend well and had high energy (as did many of the boys in that class). It wasn't all popular kid's fault, but his alienation was definitely a major part of it. I overheard him once say "I'm not coming if X is coming" and DS was uninvited.

As soon as he moved up and went to a school without PK he made plenty of friends and was invited all the time. I started hearing from other mothers that they loved my kid. It was like night and day.

Yes my kid was decidedly quirky and awkward, he had his part to play, he didn't blend well and had high energy (as did many of the boys in that class). It wasn't all popular kid's fault, but his alienation was definitely a major part of it. I overheard him once say "I'm not coming if X is coming" and DS was uninvited.

Thats a completely different thing though.

I reserve the right to not have to deal with anyone I don't like. That's my choice. What I don't have the right to do is to start saying to others about who they should socialise with etc. Its called having boundaries and knowing where they begin and end.