To think most parents don't really give a crap about this...

[reaching0ut]

....as long as their kid isn't the one being bullied or ostracised? I think at some point when everything is rosy many parents profess to feel this way, but actually they're totally oblivious or thanking their lucky stars that it's not their child coming home in tears, not sleeping, eating and feeling generally worthless and hopeless.

I also bet a lot of the people saying they don't give a shit about academics don't have kids 2/3 years behind that are constantly struggling.

Good point.

W'eve been there two with our children though -more a year 18 months - and seen how upset they were about it and the extra work and effort they had to do and they amount of support we needed to provide to get them back up to speed - even when they started to do well you don't take it for granted - it's too hard won.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose pardon?
I think you're reading things I didn't say.

I think some children are naturally more altruistic and would gravitate to support a lonely/vulnerable child. Some children are just not that way inclined. My youngest aged 9, is a good example of someone who guides and supports other vulnerable children in her class. Her teacher always says she has a kind and caring nature. She can sense a vulnerability in someone by instinct. It’s a real skill. I am really proud of her for that. She is also academically very bright. By contrast her cousin the same age is unforgiving towards young children and treats her own younger sibling aged 2 with disregard and doesn’t really understand the need to be gentle or careful around her. Maybe it’s because I’ve encouraged my DC to be kind. Academics is important also but so is producing a well rounded individual fit for society!

I have 2 children, one got perfect scores in all their SATS, the other struggles tbh a lot of it is confidence . I have always emphasised the effort and attitude, both are caring and thoughtful of others feelings but the less confident one often puts other too much to the front and ends up missing out or doing things she doesn’t want to in order to be kind to others, it can be too much

When my son was at school he struggled to make friends because he has ASD. They implemented a scheme called circle of friends where a small group of the class volunteer to befriend and look out for him. It worked really well because there were about eight of them and they all did their bit, no-one was forced to do it. Maybe schools should be doing this rather than a notice which doesn’t seem very effective.

DC are naturally academically-inclined but we've always intentionally reserved the most praise for when they do something kind, stick up for someone being bullied, help a newcomer etc. So far seems to be working as their teachers have often commented on their kind personalities.

When they're talking about new friends we also emphasise how much their friend's character - are they kind etc - is important, over sport/academic prowess/wealth.

Agree about ensuring boundaries, and avoiding saviour complexes though.

I don't want anyone's child going home sad or upset.

my kid is very academically gifted and extremely kind. the trouble is that the kids she was at school with arent either of those things.. hence the was ....

@Shell4429
That sounds such a good idea. My OH’s son is now 17, diagnosed with ASD age around 8, and has always hated school. Bullied at old school and now alone in his new one, with lunchtimes the worst. He is genuinely not capable of sparking up conversations although can keep them going once started. The new school has tried but it hasn’t worked and his dislike is turning into anxiety and bringing back old OCD habits. So very hard. The other teenagers aren’t mean, they just don’t know I think how to deal with it. He does want friends.
I’ve searched online and think must be looking in the wrong places - things like the Autism society doesn’t seem to have anything. Anyway point is not sure it’s easy for anyone in this school situation and active intervention needs to be done with thought and ongoing review.

Apologies for rambling! Has been on my mind.

I think it's kind of weird that there is so much emphasis on children being kind and inclusive but it is widely accepted that, as an adult, you are allowed to pick your own friends. Honestly can't decide whether adults should try to be more like kids, or kids should be allowed to be more like adults.

I'm all about the kindness and kind of person you are. BUT I'm also a massive believer that EVERYBODY has a gift of some sort!

My eldest son has profound medical and complex special needs - he's handsome and has a great jaw line ... but has a mental age of 9-12 months. My middle son seems to be good at most things - go figure, and my young daughter is very arty and creative.

I couldn't give two hoots what they achieve academically - so long as they're kind, generous souls who are empathetic and caring. I just want them to be true to themselves, do what makes them happy and that'll do me!

There's way too much pressure on kids these days. So long as mine try their best I'm happy, but so long as they're happy I'm the happiest.

'Kind to others' always tops my list of good comments.

'I think it's kind of weird that there is so much emphasis on children being kind and inclusive but it is widely accepted that, as an adult, you are allowed to pick your own friends. Honestly can't decide whether adults should try to be more like kids, or kids should be allowed to be more like adults.'

I'm an adult who picks their own friends. I'm also an adult who has a kind word for others, offers to help, would stop if I saw a stranger looking in distress, who volunteers time in a vacc centre to help with the Covid programme. I'm successful, I'm busy, I have a family, work, demands. But without kindness the world would be such a terrible place.It's a bit of a f-ing mess as it is. imagine it run by a generation of kids who weren't taught, in their formative years, to stop and pause, think of others, show kindness, to try to include others, to see things from a different point of view - to only care about themselves, and their interests, their success. A whole world run by the self-centered unempathic pricks that Eton churns out.

You can be bright, academic, popular in school AND be thoughtful, kind or generous of spirit to others. If you aren't then honestly, what is the point of life, of being human.

I mean, I care in an abstract sense, in that I don't want anybody to be unhappy, and I hope I am bringing my child up to be kind, but on the other hand, I can see marks and talk to teachers, I'm not helicoptering to the extent of wondering whether every other child in the class is having a lovely time.

I give a crap.

I really, really give a crap - in fact this is one of my biggest bug bears.

I can honestly say that the thing that makes me proudest on parents evening is hearing that my children are kind and polite. Academic success means little in the grand scheme of things. I know complete idiots who have done well academically, and the smartest people who have ‘failed’ because of the lack of kindness around them.

According to school data, one of mine is academic, musical and sporting and has been labelled GAT, the other isn’t so much.
The one who ‘isn’t academic’ has a phenomenal memory and to meet him he is brighter than his sister, he always has been...the difference...the kindness of others around them. My lad has been bullied and has been miserable, my girl has (so far) avoided that.

I despise a lack of kindness, there is simply no excuse.

For transparency, I’m a teacher, hubby lectures at uni - academics are our bread and butter, but kindness matters more.

Do I agree that many learners don’t seem to care? Sadly, yes. That’s probably why I am so angry writing this!

@Porcupineintherough

I think it's kind of weird that there is so much emphasis on children being kind and inclusive but it is widely accepted that, as an adult, you are allowed to pick your own friends. Honestly can't decide whether adults should try to be more like kids, or kids should be allowed to be more like adults.

There's a middle way, or at least a baseline we should operate from.

A basic level of respect and decency awarded to everyone. Don't go out of your way to be a dick. It's ok not to like someone or not want to spend time with them, there's no reason to be mean to them.

My kids are fine in school, great in some areas, ok in others academically, liked as far as I know but I'm another one who's most proud of being told that they are respectful, polite and kind.

Edit: learners should have read as parents!

everybody has a gift of some sort

I don’t think this is true but it doesn’t have to be true.

You don’t have to have a special gift or talent. Just being yourself is enough.

I’m the mother of a severely bullied child. Over a long period of time. I’ve always been fair minded, but when my kid is breaking their heart when they finally tell you what’s going on after years of this shit, also the extent of it? I couldn’t give a shit about your kid. I should, but I’m busy dealing with the fallout of what your kid has wrought.

My DD has always looked out for the underdog. She was academic scholar. This award was ruined by jellousy from other girls and their families. Be careful of wanting a high achiever, it can cost you. I am proud of her decency and it will be because of this she will do well in her chosen career. She hopes to join a public service organisation this year.

@Middersweekly

I think some children are naturally more altruistic and would gravitate to support a lonely/vulnerable child. Some children are just not that way inclined. My youngest aged 9, is a good example of someone who guides and supports other vulnerable children in her class. Her teacher always says she has a kind and caring nature. She can sense a vulnerability in someone by instinct. It’s a real skill. I am really proud of her for that. She is also academically very bright. By contrast her cousin the same age is unforgiving towards young children and treats her own younger sibling aged 2 with disregard and doesn’t really understand the need to be gentle or careful around her. Maybe it’s because I’ve encouraged my DC to be kind. Academics is important also but so is producing a well rounded individual fit for society!

When people say things like this it does nothing to make me think that their child must be particularly kind or altruistic, it just makes me think that they are ill-prepared for the inevitable times when their child is unkind and are likely to be the kind of parent who’ll stick their head in the sand over it, helping nobody, rather than helping their child understand why they behaved like that and using it as a learning experience to shape better future behaviour. The “maybe my child is so much better than her cousin because I’ve encouraged her to be kind” line is very telling. It’s not about what you’ve encouraged, it’s about normal development/human behaviour and kids learning where they fit in the world and testing their own power and loads of other things. You cannot stop your children being unkind. You especially can’t stop them doing it by saying unkind things about the inferior kindness of other children and how that must reflect on your parenting compared to that of those children’s parents.

I would be horrified if either of mine were being mean or bullying others. I get so much pleasure when their teachers and their friends' parents tell me how kind and inclusive they are. I think it depends on what kind of values one has, as to whether this is important or not.

I wouldn't be horrified Laura. Nobody on this earth gets on with everyone all of the time and nobody is nice as pie all the time.

I'd understand people being shocked and upset if they found out their child was bullying others, but I'd take with a pinch of salt anyone who says their child would never be mean, never say anything unkind, that sort of thing doesn't happen with nice children like mine.

Absolutely Middleparking. The eulogising of these mini mother Theresas is making my eyes roll. It’s so much more complex than smugly stating how kind your child is. Dd2 had a friend who was ostensibly “kind” to a troubled child in a showy visible way but a was real little unkind horror to others in the friendship group.Her parents and the class teacher have one view of her - we have quite another...

@LauraPearl

I would be horrified if either of mine were being mean or bullying others. I get so much pleasure when their teachers and their friends' parents tell me how kind and inclusive they are. I think it depends on what kind of values one has, as to whether this is important or not.

I wouldn't. All kids have the ability to be mean. All kids actually are at some point or another, even if the degrees of mean vary. They can even be mean/rude to their teachers. Yup, even the "good" ones.

DD upset a friend yesterday. Completely innocent and without intent ,but it happened. Told her to apologise and next time think carefully about her words, context and who is listening.

There are no parents who consider kindness a non-priority in their value system for their kids. Having kindness as a value doesn’t mean that you’re kind all the time nor that your kids will be. If your kids know that you’ll be absolutely horrified if you hear of them being unkind they’re pretty likely to just become more adept at a) being unkind in ways that are not easily intervened on by adults, and b) manipulating and lying to adults if they do get told on.