Page 13 | Do you judge women who stay with men who don't see their children?

BlatantPineapple · 2021-04-19T15:41:24+00:00

A close friends situation got me thinking about this sort of thing... Basically her Dad has older children from before she was born who he never sees and she has never met. He has been married to her Mum for a long time now and she has two brothers. She says he's always been a good Dad to them but I know she finds it strange that she has siblings out there somewhere who she has no idea about. Whenever she mentions it I just can't help but feel really sorry for his older children. How hurtful it must be to know your Dad is a good father to other children but never bothered with you. I also wondered how I'd feel as his wife (my friends Mum). I don't think I'd be able to be with a Man who did that, would you? Would you judge a woman who was with a man who'd abandoned and never seen his children?

mymymy0 · 20/04/2021 21:53

Yes. Both her and her DP/DH

BilboBercow · 20/04/2021 21:56

I've known two men who used to bleat on publicly about parental alienation and ex's who wouldn't let them see their kids and who made up lies about them.

Both were abusers, one is now in prison for really serious domestic abuse.

AnneElliott · 20/04/2021 21:57

I judge men who don't see and pay for their children. I think the women who stay with them are naive - they believe the lies that come tripping off their tongue!

I only judge the women where they actively collude with the dad to stop/ reduce payments for his kids (I know someone who does this).

Surely as a society we ought to judge these men? It should be be drunk driving - no one thinks that's acceptable anymore. We should be the same about not supporting or seeing your kids.

Heartofglass12345 · 20/04/2021 21:59

I think my dad takes the biscuit with this one. I have two older sisters who have the same mum, they were married and got divorced.

4 years later he meets my mum and gets her pregnant, leaves and meets another woman. Marries her and gets her pregnant twice, leaves her and goes back to my mum!

My mum was stupid enough to get involved with him again! They even got married for a couple of years. When I was around 8 the CSA turned up at the door saying he had another daughter so my mum kicked him out.

I went through comp with 2 sisters a year and 2 years younger than me who had his surname (which I thought was very weird as they didn't even know him) and I knew who they were but they didn't know who I was.

I ended up working with the older one of them when we were 17&18 and she used to say how she wished she was as close to her (our!) sister as I was to mine (on my mums side, not my dads, she worked in the same factory too) and I used to feel awful but didn't know what to say
I met the younger sister a few years back after my dads side of the family got in touch with her, but now they are nc again after a falling out.

It messed me up a bit I have to be honest!

My mum then went on to marry a man who has nothing to do with his kids or grandkids now! She knows how to pick them!

Sounds like something from Eastenders!!

Heartofglass12345 · 20/04/2021 22:01

Oh and never paid a penny in maintenance to my mum who had me and my 2 older sisters to look after.

I definitely judge them and wouldn't get involved with anyone with kids anyway, even more so if they weren't paying for them or seeing them!

aSofaNearYou · 20/04/2021 22:03

How would you view them then?

Depends entirely on the circumstances but I wouldn't view either one of them as reluctantly gifting the other sex and the other as a dog-like figure for whom that could be the only thing of interest, unless those were things that were evident from either of their characters.

theleafandnotthetree · 20/04/2021 22:16

@LuaDipa. Well then you've never had the misfortune to meet some of the truly awful manipulatuve people who exist in the world and who will lie and manipulate situations to an extent that would make your hair stand on end. Have you never heard of parental alienation? You seem very naive

ClarkeGriffin · 20/04/2021 22:59

@aSofaNearYou

How would you view them then?

Depends entirely on the circumstances but I wouldn't view either one of them as reluctantly gifting the other sex and the other as a dog-like figure for whom that could be the only thing of interest, unless those were things that were evident from either of their characters.

But that does tend to be the relationship between these kind of people, although reluctantcy doesn't come into it.

If it was a man who had dumped his kids and moved on, he's spun the new woman a whole bunch of lies and sad tales about how his ex is evil and twisted and thats why he doesn't see the kids. We all know this to be a lie, even deep down, the woman probably does too, but low self esteem or other issues may cloud her judgement to trust the idiot man. He gets what he wants out of her, whether that be sex (these men are usually quite active sex wise, hence the many children they usually produce), or a woman to look after him, cook, clean etc for him.

If it was a woman that dumped her kids, it is basically the same. Spinning lies and manipulating the man into getting what she wants from him.

These kinds of people aren't complicated or smart. They really just focus on their basic needs more or less. They have little to no depth to them. But that's to be expected of someone who will happily abandon their own children. You've got to be pretty heartless to do that.

I agree with another poster, we should be shaming these people more. Like we did with drink drivers.

ReggaetonLente · 20/04/2021 23:05

I actually pulled right back from a longstanding close friend when she got with a guy like this. Never saw his (very young) daughter, the ex (who he left high dry and homeless with an infant) was a psycho, etc. Horrible to listen to. My friend swallowed the lot and spouted it too. It was plainly evident that this man just couldn't be arsed with his kid, i felt like it said a lot about him and a lot about her that she wanted to be with someone like that. Anyway years on he still barely sees the child and she is worried that he doesn't seem to want to start a family with her!

Porcupineintherough · 20/04/2021 23:07

Not necessarily. I've only known one woman in this situation mind, but when she got with her partner he hadnt seen his kids in years. She didn't want children and they made a happy enough couple for 6 years before he died. He was a fuck up honestly, and his own family never forgave him for walking out on his first family (only one brother came to the funeral). Bit I didn't judge her for his messed up choices.

Willyoujustbequiet · 21/04/2021 00:26

Damn right I would judge. And the women who are with them and turn a blind eye.

There is literally no excuse. Parental alienation has started to be discounted as a concept - it's a tool abusive ex partners use to continue abuse. You can self represent in court for next to no cost, especially on a low income and the family court is very heavily weighted in favour of contact with both parents these days. Even at the expense of dv victims.

Deadbeat fathers (and it is nearly always men) are always full of bullshit. There are no back stories in the vast majority of cases - they are simply immoral, selfish individuals

JustLyra · 21/04/2021 00:30

In all my years I only know one guy who has actually pushed with court and searching to the point people have suggested for his sake he give up. And he never will.

The vast majority of men I’ve heard whinge that their ex won’t let them see their kids don’t even consider going to court to the point they don’t even Google the process. It’s bullshit so much of the time.

ShowUsTheMeaningOfHaste · 21/04/2021 05:49

@Porcupineintherough

Not necessarily. I've only known one woman in this situation mind, but when she got with her partner he hadnt seen his kids in years. She didn't want children and they made a happy enough couple for 6 years before he died. He was a fuck up honestly, and his own family never forgave him for walking out on his first family (only one brother came to the funeral). Bit I didn't judge her for his messed up choices.

But would you not question the morals of a woman who could be totally okay with her partner doing that?

I don't mind having minor disagreements with my husband but we absolutely must align on our views of big things like this.

If he had abandoned children before we met, I honestly couldn't be with him. I'd be condoning that behaviour by doing so in my view.

worriedatthemoment · 21/04/2021 06:59

A friend of mind pays child support but hasn't seen his children for several years as his ex moved without telling him and he doesn't know where she is ? The cm goes direct from his wages and cms won't : can't give him contact details
So sometimes there is another side although prob rare

worriedatthemoment · 21/04/2021 07:11

Why do so many in here deny that any mother has ever witheld her children or been spiteful , despite people knowing this has happened to
As in my friends case he can't go to court as has no idea where she is and she may if even returned to birth country plus doesn't have huge funds to look
He is devastated he doesn't see his kids
Obviously there are a lot of men that walk away but don't think there are no women that try and stop contact or be awkward

Noirdesir · 21/04/2021 07:11

@2bazookas

You don't know any of the circumstances so shouldn't be judging what the Dad and his then partner did (or didn't) do decades ago.

There are plenty of reasons (when parents part company) why one of them may lose touch with the children through no wish or intention of their own.

Think , mother returning home to another country , moving abroad with new partner. Or just, moving to the opposite end of the UK to start a new life , clean break, with a new name, and disappear.

Before the internet and electronic records, it was pretty easy to drop out of sight. Many people had no bank account, wages, rent, bills and benefits were all paid in cash.

Sorry but this is nonsense. If someone tried to take my kids to another country I would fight tooth and nail to prevent it. The thought of just going “oh well- that’s a shame- guess I’ll never see them again eh!” Is utterly abhorrent and a indicates a terrible parent. Even IF they were legally allowed to move countries planes exist and so does face time, and telephones. There is no excuse to just drop all effort and contact and frankly that’s a pathetic excuse.

worriedatthemoment · 21/04/2021 07:13

@JustLyra but what about these women that are just withholding with no valid reason, why should they have to be going to court
If they are a good father and you are a good mother you don't withhold your children or use them as a weapon so the blame lies with the women here

worriedatthemoment · 21/04/2021 07:14

@Noirdesir what if you don't know where they are?
You can't facetime someone if you don't have a number or you don't actually know where they are as they just disappeared

JustLyra · 21/04/2021 07:20

[quote worriedatthemoment]@JustLyra but what about these women that are just withholding with no valid reason, why should they have to be going to court
If they are a good father and you are a good mother you don't withhold your children or use them as a weapon so the blame lies with the women here [/quote]
Those cases are far, far fewer than the ones where the NRP, normally the father, just doesn’t bother their arse.

And the fact someone shouldn’t make you go to court isn’t an excuse to say “oh well, I shouldn’t have to do that”

A friend of DH’s is literally going to send himself to an early grave searching for his kids. He’s been through every process he can, spending weekends in libraries and online learning what he needed to represent himself when he ran out of funds.

Let’s not kid ourselves here though, cases like that are few and far between. The vast majority of men who don’t have contact with their children have chosen that path.

worriedatthemoment · 21/04/2021 07:21

@AccidentallyOnPurpose people often give up when they run out of money as its hard trying to fight through a court with no money , its not free.

worriedatthemoment · 21/04/2021 07:25

@JustLyra i said they were fewer but lets not kid ourselves it doesn't happen as some on here imply
Mr friend has no money for court or money to find his child now, he has maintenance come out monthly and then with rent and food that leaves him with no money fro court.
Many of here claim a mum is never Wrong though and its always the dads
We have a dads justice group because of this so whilst rarer than men who just don't bother , it still happens a fair bit

Onlinedilema · 21/04/2021 07:26

There seems to be a lot of defensiveness on this thread, maybe it's touched a raw nerve.
Id much prefer it if my dcs did not get serious with anyone who already had children. They don't have children so life is easier if there life partner doesnt.
Either way it can be a ball ache.

JustLyra · 21/04/2021 07:30

[quote worriedatthemoment]@JustLyra i said they were fewer but lets not kid ourselves it doesn't happen as some on here imply
Mr friend has no money for court or money to find his child now, he has maintenance come out monthly and then with rent and food that leaves him with no money fro court.
Many of here claim a mum is never Wrong though and its always the dads
We have a dads justice group because of this so whilst rarer than men who just don't bother , it still happens a fair bit[/quote]
I haven’t seen anyone say it doesn’t happen.

Not going down the common road of “but but what about the women” whataboutery isn’t the same as saying it never happens.

As always happens in these discussions there are people determinedly making out like it happens in equal measures. Which everyone knows it’s bollocks.

eyeoresancerre · 21/04/2021 07:34

No back story from my point of view. My father had an affair, left has 4 other children (we're all in our 40's) and I've never met the new family. He's lavished them with money, flats, cars etc and he hasn't seen me or my siblings in decades. Always amazes me how some fathers can compartmentalise their life's.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 21/04/2021 07:39

[quote worriedatthemoment]@Noirdesir what if you don't know where they are?
You can't facetime someone if you don't have a number or you don't actually know where they are as they just disappeared[/quote]
How often does that actually happen though? It's not a common scenario, certainly not as common as dads who just can't be bothered.