Do you judge women who stay with men who don't see their children?

[BlatantPineapple]

A close friends situation got me thinking about this sort of thing...

Basically her Dad has older children from before she was born who he never sees and she has never met.

He has been married to her Mum for a long time now and she has two brothers. She says he's always been a good Dad to them but I know she finds it strange that she has siblings out there somewhere who she has no idea about.

Whenever she mentions it I just can't help but feel really sorry for his older children. How hurtful it must be to know your Dad is a good father to other children but never bothered with you.

I also wondered how I'd feel as his wife (my friends Mum). I don't think I'd be able to be with a Man who did that, would you? Would you judge a woman who was with a man who'd abandoned and never seen his children?

@IbrahimaRedTwo

When my parents split up my mother moved back to Avignon - with the complete agreement of the divorce court !. That made it a tad difficult for my father to have us over every other weekend !. He used to speak to us on the phone but by then he had returned to New York.

So he just said whatever, and moved to New York. And you think that's ok? If ny children moved to France, do you know where I'd move? France. Not New York.

In the real world he probably couldn't have moved to France. They are hardly going to allow a random man who can't speak the language or have a job just randomly decide to live there. Admittedly going to America is too far the other way though, but he may have done that if he has no ties left in the UK.

@IbrahimaRedTwo

When my parents split up my mother moved back to Avignon - with the complete agreement of the divorce court !. That made it a tad difficult for my father to have us over every other weekend !. He used to speak to us on the phone but by then he had returned to New York.

So he just said whatever, and moved to New York. And you think that's ok? If ny children moved to France, do you know where I'd move? France. Not New York.

So a father has to keep moving to keep in contact with their child? Why should a father have to upsticks and move because the mother has decided to move to another country.

This should not be allowed

How are you going to do that if your ex refused to open the door to you or is always out? The police aren't going to help as both parents have parental responsibility and the courts can order contact, but it doesn't mean that the other parent will actually allow it to happen.
The parent who stopped would be brought back to court and forced to comply with the visitation order.
I'd knock every day, send letters, while waiting.
I'm not sure about the UK in Ireland you definitely go to jail if you ignore a visitation or payment order.
There's no way someone would take my DC without a continuous fight they'd eventually give in I wouldn't stop.

Obviously there is some genuine situations too but they can't all be dealing with a psycho ex.

@EmeraldShamrock

Obviously there is some genuine situations too but they can't all be dealing with a psycho ex.

I honestly believe that there are more women who act disgracefully than you might think.

Not all of them, obviously, but more than you think.

@EmeraldShamrock

How are you going to do that if your ex refused to open the door to you or is always out? The police aren't going to help as both parents have parental responsibility and the courts can order contact, but it doesn't mean that the other parent will actually allow it to happen. The parent who stopped would be brought back to court and forced to comply with the visitation order. I'd knock every day, send letters, while waiting. I'm not sure about the UK in Ireland you definitely go to jail if you ignore a visitation or payment order. There's no way someone would take my DC without a continuous fight they'd eventually give in I wouldn't stop.

So you would prefer to be done for harassment and possibly loose your home due to the court costs? Also the child is less likely to want to see you because you are scaring them and Mummy.

I was a child that my biological father stopped bothering with once he married his wife. I met their eldest child on one of my weekend visits to his when i was 3/4 and then he stopped turning up to collect. I grew up in the same village he lived in with his 3 daughters, 2 of his sisters treated me as their niece and I still have a relationship with them now. But he gave up on me, I wasn't enough for him, i've made my peace with it but as a result i'm a terrible people pleaser as I have abandonment issues that I beleive stem from this. I have however got a lovely Dad that chose to treat me as his daughter when he got in a relationship with my mum. I stalked his daughters a little on facebook and was tempted to contact them to build some kind of relationship but I couldn't help feel feelings of inadequacy so decided against it.
In response to the OP I pity his wife, I don't understand how any woman can look at the father of children and think she made the right choice knowing he had abandoned an earlier child. My husband has many faults but deep down I know he would always be there for our children if needed and his 3 children he had with his first partner that are still a huge part of our lives even now theyre adults.

I absolutely would.

My husband's dad cheated on his mum, then left her, dh and dbil and has made at least one more family. Last memory dh has is his dad visiting to sign divorce papers. Even had the cheek to give his mistress mil's address as his new children wanted to know their older brothers, yet nothing about their dad wanting to see them. Mad.

@LaceyBetty

I would not be able to understand how a woman would want to have children with a man who has form form abandoning children. I would judge, yes. But I would judge the man more.

This!

And TBH I wouldn't have much sympathy for her if history repeated itself.

I know someone who barely bothers with his own children because he’s too busy raising his girlfriend’s children (so not even his own bio kids). He isn’t really interested in his own children at all, only sees them a few hours every other week and can’t have them overnight because he lives in a tiny 2 up 2 down so no space. Never does anything with his DC, just let’s them play on their games the whole time they’re there in another room to him so there’s little to no point in the visits really. He’s never done a school run but takes his girlfriend’s children to school every day... Oh but he pays maintenance (bare minimum) so guess he’s not all bad!

Yes, I judge this man and any man who puts little to no effort in with their children. I honestly don’t know how they sleep at night.

This situation doesn't always arise out of divorce either. I had a friend whose mother died of cancer when she was in her early teens. She had to go in to intensive care after an operation in her early twenties, and her dad was too busy with his new wife and baby to go and visit her in hospital. So honestly, I think many men, even if they are decent blokes otherwise, are totally shit at doing the necessary work to keep a relationship going and that includes friendships, relationships with extended family like aunts and uncles, as well as offspring. As demonstrated by all the wife work that women used to do at Christmas etc. I've no idea whether it's down to laziness, social conditioning or some anthropological behavioural issue related to how women lived in groups in ancient communities (hopefully someone more knowledgeable on here will explain) but whatever the reason, they have got away with it for years. Women are judged so much more harshly if they are distanced from their children.

I know a grand total of 4 men who have told their current partners/wives that the ex’s tricked them by getting pregnant. One was tricked twice by the same woman. One was tricked by the first woman, tricked by another and went back to the first and low and behold was tricked again! He then asked his now fiancée if she wanted to have another kid with him. She said no, I hope she is on very effective birth control .

2 of the 4 have regular contact with their kids. Though one of those 2 leaves most of the parenting to their partner. One has sporadic contact and one has never met his child and moved countries to avoid cms.

All the divorced/separated women I know allow and sometimes bend over backwards for their kids to have regular contact with their dads.

Obviously this is all anecdotal but in my experience parental abandonment/crapiness is more common than parental alienation.

Obviously this is all anecdotal but in my experience parental abandonment/crapiness is more common than parental alienation.

Conversely, I have never met anyone that has simply abandoned their children, but can think of lots of examples of parental alienation. The moral of the story, I'm sure, is that they're both common.

I also take a dim view of these men’s families if they have an involved relationship and know what’s going on. If my brother had a child and wasn’t seeing much of it or not giving much financial support, my parents and sister and I would come down on him like a ton of bricks and would offer his hypothetical ex as much support as she was willing to accept. Equally, when my sister separated acrimoniously from her child’s father, she started making noises in anger about reducing, not stopping, contact - she barely got to the end of the sentence before my dad firmly put paid to that idea. He acted as mediator and go between (facilitating handovers and sharing pictures etc) until the anger had subsided enough for my sister and her ex to communicate properly. They have a great co-parenting relationship now, several years later, which can be attributed in large part to my dad’s compassionate approach to both of them and absolute prioritisation of what was best for their child. I don’t hold with people taking their own relative’s side for the sake of it.

Only person who is a truly truly shit parent who I know, is my own dad. I don't know anyone else who has abandoned their children.

However I do know a woman who has tried to alienate the other parent for years. Has acted in a disgusting manner and frankly, if you'd have told me the details years ago I wouldn't have believed it.

I wouldn't have believed anyone would act that way.

And no, nobody has told me the story, told me she's a psycho, tricked anyone into children, in fact the opposite. I was told she was a lovely woman, a devoted mother. And she was. Until she wasn't.

I would not be able to understand how a woman would want to have children with a man who has form form abandoning children. I would judge, yes. But I would judge the man more.

I guess the thing is people usually go by how someone treats them, rather than how they may or may not have behaved well in previous relationships or with other people.

Men - either honestly or not - will give their reasons to their new girlfriend as to why they don't see their children and if he's good enough to her she will likely believe him and continue the relationship.

I don't know many people who would dump someone based on how they might have treated their ex or their children with somebody else.

And the sad truth is that many men genuinely do go on to be 'good fathers' to later children, despite not bothering with their older ones. I know of examples of this in my own life, where men absolutely dote on their younger children but have had no contact with the older ones for years due to an acrimonious break up.

Me too. In fact I remember my dad asking my mum to ask teenage me, if I would mind if he adopted his girlfriend's daughter. I just laughed and said do what you want, good luck to her.

He didn't, in the end. And I don't have anything to do with him or his gf, but me and her daughter and good friends.

In a lot of cases men do this with the full support of their new partner. So it’s often a joint decision. I know of many a dropkick who has decided to become a sahp to benefit his new partner and her / their kids and ‘save’ maintenance as if it’s a bill and not upkeep for their children; but then refuse to have their older kids more than 2-4 times a month & refuse to buy them anything (and sometimes don’t even feed them) because ‘they don’t have the money and it’s not their new partner’s responsibility’. Then blame the ex or their kids for when contact eventually dies a death.

My friend was married to one of those losers - and he used to make her kids really basic food like beans on toast while his kids ate the nice stuff cooked by the stepmum. They then had to watch their half-siblings eat pudding etc while they never got any because their dad ‘couldn’t’ afford it. That lasted exactly two visits before my friend blocked them from going. And predictably, because he’s a dropkick, instead of fighting for access he and his wife just blamed my friend and the kids; and let contact dwindle.

Yes of course, how could anyone not judge this? I would also think less of the woman, putting her in a similar category to those who have relationships with married men. They clearly think that the man in question (no great catch in my opinion) would never do what he's already done to someone else to THEM as they are clearly superior and special. I judge them as desperate idiots.

I judge those who try to deny or avoid acknowledging their children. So I judged Cecil Parkinson when he was alive, and I judge Boris Johnson.

@ginghamstarfish

Yes of course, how could anyone not judge this? I would also think less of the woman, putting her in a similar category to those who have relationships with married men. They clearly think that the man in question (no great catch in my opinion) would never do what he's already done to someone else to THEM as they are clearly superior and special. I judge them as desperate idiots.

Desperate idiots? Even when there its not the man's choice not to see their children? Or have you got some other delightful words for those women?

@Kpo58 I would hazard a guess that most people on this thread have never suffered the consequences on the other parent alienating them from their child.

For those saying they'd do everything. I have. I've no money left to go to court. The court order is a waste of paper, my ex husband ignores it (he has residence I have contact), Social Services cannot investigate coercive control without evidence and the school can't do anything without my daughter telling them. I've no emotional or physical energy to fight it anymore.

The final nail in the coffin was when I called my daughter and he was telling her in the background that I was lying (I was not) and she went nuts and told me she never wanted to speak to me again and blocked me on everything. I can't write because he's just moved and not told me where. The whole situation made me so ill I contracted meningitis of which the doctor told me was stress induced.

So you can all sit in your glass houses throwing stones but until you truly know a situation I'd leave your judgy pants at home.

@DroopyDaff

Absolutely. My own father remarried a woman with 2 DC of her own after leaving my mother. Never saw him again, nor did he pay a penny in child maintenance. When we finally met up again (briefly) when I was in my 40’s, his wife and stepdaughter made a big thing about what a great Dad he was and how close he was to his stepdaughter .

My mind boggled at the lack of awareness. There’s no cure for stupid unfortunately. Or desperation.

If I was ever to be divorced/widowed, a man like that would be a complete turnoff.

My father walked out on me and my sister when we were tiny, he moved overseas and I didn't see him again until I was in my 30's, and he didn't contribute a penny towards our upbringing, my mum was so poor she'd often gone without eating. We really were living in poverty.

I used to convince myself that he didn't know where to find us, but my grandparents lived in the same house for 50 years so if he'd looked there he would have found us.

When I did eventually meet him I found out that he had spent his 30's living a wonderful life travelling and enjoying himself, he'd had two daughters who were privately educated and had also travelled all over the world. He seemed like a fantastic father to them, whilst he'd never even sent a birthday card to me and my sister. His new wife seemed to think that it didn't matter and the important thing was that he had finally got in touch.

I'm really sorry you're going through this @alwayswrighty.

A lot of people seem to think it's so simple, go to court, get access, done. But it's just not is it.