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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do you judge women who stay with men who don't see their children?

337 replies

BlatantPineapple · 19/04/2021 16:41

A close friends situation got me thinking about this sort of thing...

Basically her Dad has older children from before she was born who he never sees and she has never met.

He has been married to her Mum for a long time now and she has two brothers. She says he's always been a good Dad to them but I know she finds it strange that she has siblings out there somewhere who she has no idea about.

Whenever she mentions it I just can't help but feel really sorry for his older children. How hurtful it must be to know your Dad is a good father to other children but never bothered with you.

I also wondered how I'd feel as his wife (my friends Mum). I don't think I'd be able to be with a Man who did that, would you? Would you judge a woman who was with a man who'd abandoned and never seen his children?

OP posts:
GrumpyHoonMain · 20/04/2021 11:05

@ginghamstarfish

Yes of course, how could anyone not judge this? I would also think less of the woman, putting her in a similar category to those who have relationships with married men. They clearly think that the man in question (no great catch in my opinion) would never do what he's already done to someone else to THEM as they are clearly superior and special. I judge them as desperate idiots.
Yes. This is so true. They are so desperate they chase very unsuitable men / women, and then change the narrative to suit them. The same thing Can’t happen to them because they’re younger / take care of themselves / are special. Then of course different but equally as shitty stuff happens and they end up trapping themselves in the relationship because of the change in narrative.
JustLyra · 20/04/2021 11:06

I judge when they know the whole story, and in particular when they play an active part in it.

My ex wasn’t great with our girls after we split, but they had a routine. He met his wife and she actively encouraged him to limit contact for any tiny reason. She also refused to “be responsible” for them at any point, but also felt uncomfortable with MIL being around so every third contact was cancelled because he was on call overnight. He had once been called in three years and he was out for an hour... she also used to make snide digs on FB about maintenance, whinge to my girls about being skint, and charmingly told them they couldn’t attend their half-brothers christening as it was for family only.

Now he’s the dick because he allowed and encouraged it all. I judge him massively. He’s a dick.

However, do I judge her for her behaviour - yes?
Do I judge her even more now that they’ve split and she’s whinging that he dodges maintenance and contact and claiming she can’t believe he’d do that? Damn right I do.

alwayswrighty · 20/04/2021 11:06

@TrustTheGeneGenie exactly. You can take a horse to water...

PuttingOnTheKitsch · 20/04/2021 11:06

@GrumpyHoonMain

In a lot of cases men do this with the full support of their new partner. So it’s often a joint decision. I know of many a dropkick who has decided to become a sahp to benefit his new partner and her / their kids and ‘save’ maintenance as if it’s a bill and not upkeep for their children; but then refuse to have their older kids more than 2-4 times a month & refuse to buy them anything (and sometimes don’t even feed them) because ‘they don’t have the money and it’s not their new partner’s responsibility’. Then blame the ex or their kids for when contact eventually dies a death.

My friend was married to one of those losers - and he used to make her kids really basic food like beans on toast while his kids ate the nice stuff cooked by the stepmum. They then had to watch their half-siblings eat pudding etc while they never got any because their dad ‘couldn’t’ afford it. That lasted exactly two visits before my friend blocked them from going. And predictably, because he’s a dropkick, instead of fighting for access he and his wife just blamed my friend and the kids; and let contact dwindle.

One of the saddest stories on here was a women who had split mutually from her DH. After initially having a good relationship post-split, once he had a new partner, he moved to the other side of the country and completely checked out of his children's lives.

I will never understand how a formerly loving parent can do that. It's frightening.

Pyewackect · 20/04/2021 11:08

@IbrahimaRedTwo

When my parents split up my mother moved back to Avignon - with the complete agreement of the divorce court !. That made it a tad difficult for my father to have us over every other weekend !. He used to speak to us on the phone but by then he had returned to New York.

So he just said whatever, and moved to New York. And you think that's ok? If ny children moved to France, do you know where I'd move? France. Not New York.
Hmm

My father , altho born in the UK , was a US citizen plus he didn’t speak French nor did JP Morgan didn’t have an office in Provence. He moved back to NewYork when offered a significant promotion plus there was nothing to keep him in London anymore. I see him 4/5 times a year. I haven’t seen or spoken to my mother in 10 years.
Deidretheelf · 20/04/2021 11:09

I'm surprised at the number of people on here saying that all men who say their ex prevented access are liars.

This is the problem though isn’t it, regardless of the sex of the parent. Countless times I’ve come across couples where allegations of domestic violence have been made. And every time the man says it’s all rubbish, made up out of revenge or to stop him seeing the kids. And people frequently believe the man without really knowing what is going on in the relationship or what the truth is and they judge the Mum. And very often I believe the Mum is telling the truth and still gets judged.

What I’m trying to get at is that you really shouldn’t judge another until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes or at least know them extremely well. Otherwise it ends up with people who are blameless being stigmatised for something that they haven’t done.

And really, how does it affect anyone’s lives aside from the family concerned.

contrary13 · 20/04/2021 11:15

My father is the oldest of 8 children, but grew up with the next two down from him (his full-siblings). His father, my grandfather, didn't lay eyes upon my father or his brothers from the time Dad was 5 years old - yet he knew where they lived, as he used to write to my grandmother every now and then (never mentioned their children, though; only the ones he had with "the other woman"). The younger children all knew about Dad and his brothers - apparently as the eldest son, my father was held up as something of a shining example... by a man who simply did not know him at all.

Do I judge my step-grandmothers (there were three more marriages) for having more children with my grandfather, even though he didn't see his elder three children? Yes. Do I judge my grandfather for essentially abandoning my father and his full-siblings? Undoubtedly. He'd died by the time I traced his family, and I've listened to so many "oh, he was such a great man!" stories that it's not funny - because I don't think that he was.

My father and his full-siblings refuse to have a relationship with their younger half-siblings, nephews and nieces... which is their right. The hurt they all felt as children, and feel as adults, is too much for a successful relationship structure. But I have no memories of my grandfather, and actually? Quite like his "other" children and grandchildren/great-grandchildren. We talk often, and I've learned a lot about the man my grandfather was to them. The irony of it is that he was apparently desperate for a granddaughter, but had only grandsons... all of whom are younger than me. The eldest grandchild and the granddaughter he was "desperate" for. If he'd maintained contact with my father and his brothers, he would have had 3 granddaughters alongside grandsons, but he decided he didn't want to be in his older children's lives - so he missed out. His loss. Not ours.

My friends who have divorced or separated from their children's mothers, on the other hand, have maintained a steady and amicable contact. My oldest's father? To the best of my knowledge hasn't set eyes on her since she was 3 weeks old - his choice; despite his abusive behaviours, my daughter saw his family regularly until she was 7 years old. Just not him. He went on to have two more girls with someone else. My son's father's contact is still very focused on the adult in the relationship. If he decides to go on holiday with his other children, our son is relegated to the back benches, for example, where as on other weeks, my quality time with our son is thrown to one side because my ex has clicked his fingers and demanded that our son spend time with him (which is frustrating as fuck!). Some men are simply thoughtless and arrogant enough to believe that it's all about them.

(Neither my grandfather or either of my exes pay/paid maintenance, either... which is somewhat telling as to the sort of "fathers" they actually are/were).

IbrahimaRedTwo · 20/04/2021 11:18

So a father has to keep moving to keep in contact with their child? Why should a father have to upsticks and move because the mother has decided to move to another country

Why should he have to? Hmm If it was your kids, wouldn't you want to? This excusing bad parental behaviour is endemic.

Most of the men who claim their exes kept them from the children are lying, or at the least exaggerating. And often, where she did, there was a bloody good reason to keep him away.
The amount of women here pretending that all deadbeat dads were forced to abandon their children is disgusting.

Is there anything that would keep you from your children? You'd have to actually kill me to keep me from mine.

Bibidy · 20/04/2021 11:29

@IbrahimaRedTwo

So a father has to keep moving to keep in contact with their child? Why should a father have to upsticks and move because the mother has decided to move to another country

Why should he have to? Hmm If it was your kids, wouldn't you want to? This excusing bad parental behaviour is endemic.

Most of the men who claim their exes kept them from the children are lying, or at the least exaggerating. And often, where she did, there was a bloody good reason to keep him away.
The amount of women here pretending that all deadbeat dads were forced to abandon their children is disgusting.

Is there anything that would keep you from your children? You'd have to actually kill me to keep me from mine.

In the scenario you're responding to, I'd say the bad parental behaviour is moving your children overseas, away from their other parent, so the other parent's only option is to try and follow you there.
IbrahimaRedTwo · 20/04/2021 11:32

In the scenario you're responding to, I'd say the bad parental behaviour is moving your children overseas, away from their other parent, so the other parent's only option is to try and follow you there

There was probably a good reason to do it. And if he just shrugged and moved thousands of miles in the opposite direction, seems she was proved correct.

Bibidy · 20/04/2021 11:39

@IbrahimaRedTwo

In the scenario you're responding to, I'd say the bad parental behaviour is moving your children overseas, away from their other parent, so the other parent's only option is to try and follow you there

There was probably a good reason to do it. And if he just shrugged and moved thousands of miles in the opposite direction, seems she was proved correct.

From reading the original post, it seems like maybe the mum moved with the children back to her home country and as a result the dad moved back to his?

I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to follow you back to your own home country, and I'd say someone who does that is likely doing it in the hope that the other parent doesn't follow.

IbrahimaRedTwo · 20/04/2021 11:51

I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to follow you back to your own home country, and I'd say someone who does that is likely doing it in the hope that the other parent doesn't follow

I think you are missing the point. It's not about whether its reasonable to expect someone to move to follow you, or expecting them not to. What I am saying is what kind of parent doesn't want to? If your children were moved to another country by their other parent, would you not follow them? Would you move as far as you could in the other direction?

PurleaseSqueeze · 20/04/2021 11:51

I do think it's wrong to move your children away from their other parent. But equally I would still follow them if they did.

CutieBear · 20/04/2021 11:53

@EnoughnowIthink I actually wrote a dissertation on “hysteria.” Very interesting topic.

@Waxonwaxoff0 just because men are less likely to be abused (or less likely to REPORT this) doesn’t mean that we should victim blame and refuse to believe men who escape abusive psycho girlfriends/wives. I saw the devastating effects of emotional psychotic abuse on my brother. He was terrified of upsetting her and he withdrew from family and friends. She would emotionally manipulate him to stay.

Bibidy · 20/04/2021 11:59

@IbrahimaRedTwo

I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to follow you back to your own home country, and I'd say someone who does that is likely doing it in the hope that the other parent doesn't follow

I think you are missing the point. It's not about whether its reasonable to expect someone to move to follow you, or expecting them not to. What I am saying is what kind of parent doesn't want to? If your children were moved to another country by their other parent, would you not follow them? Would you move as far as you could in the other direction?

No I wouldn't follow them. I would do what I could to stop the move happening - court etc - but if it did then no, I wouldn't follow them to a random country where I knew no one, had no job, no life.

I would likely go back to my own home country or stay in the country we had previously been living in and work out contact arrangements from there. Have them for half or more of the school holidays etc. Or travel to where they live and stay somewhere there with them several times a year.

So I do get that I wouldn't give up. But equally I do think it's completely unreasonable to expect someone to move countries just because their ex has decided to do that. It's not right that she made that choice.

BashfulClam · 20/04/2021 12:11

You have to know both sides of the story. My brother struggles to get to see his kids. His ex keeps cancelling and they were born before unmarried fathers got automatic paternal rights. Now she’s using covid as an excuse but really she wants him to fuck off so she can cosy up with her new man and play happy families. She tried to change the kids babes but he got that stopped. He pays her half of his wage and bonus every month and gives her half of their Christmas each years. He even buys school uniform and shells out for new shoes, boots and coats each year but she lets him see them twice a year at best and she stays the whole time. He has had to live with my mother due to the money he sends to his kids. It’s not always as easy as simply being abandoned.

funtimefrank · 20/04/2021 12:25

My grandma married a man who had left children from 2 previous marriages and never saw them.

He left her with a 3 year old and a baby that he never saw again and barely supported.

We don't ever know what possessed her other than they had a lot of common interests and she was approaching 40 and wanted a family. She was always clear he wasn't the love of her life in any way.

JustLyra · 20/04/2021 12:32

they were born before unmarried fathers got automatic paternal rights.

Surely then he can just make arrangements with them directly given they must be over 16?

TrustTheGeneGenie · 20/04/2021 12:35

@IbrahimaRedTwo

In the scenario you're responding to, I'd say the bad parental behaviour is moving your children overseas, away from their other parent, so the other parent's only option is to try and follow you there

There was probably a good reason to do it. And if he just shrugged and moved thousands of miles in the opposite direction, seems she was proved correct.

Probably? Based on what? Go on... I think we'd all like to hear it.
IbrahimaRedTwo · 20/04/2021 12:36

It's not right that she made that choice

You have no basis for saying that at all. There are a thousand reasons she may have been right to make that choice.

Nonmaquillee · 20/04/2021 12:38

Haven't read the whole thread but yes, I would judge - unless there's a good reason for him not seeing his children, such as not being allowed to see them.

PuttingOnTheKitsch · 20/04/2021 12:44

@JustLyra

they were born before unmarried fathers got automatic paternal rights.

Surely then he can just make arrangements with them directly given they must be over 16?

Considering the law changed in 2002, they must be adults by now.
JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows · 20/04/2021 12:48

I moved 2 hours away from ExH as I was only living in that area to be close to his family and I wanted to be close to mine. Kids were 3 and 6 at the time. Why should I have stayed where I didn't want to be?

I got so much grief from his family because of that decision. I was a selfish bitch looking to punish him and take his kids away - no doubt had a man waiting in the wings ready to be my kids' new daddy, apparently. ExH was happy to paint me out to be this way too.

I quite happily told his family that I had to convince ExH to have the kids as much as EOW. He only wanted them once a month. Given that it's only a 2 hour trip every 14 days to see him it is easily done. We've managed no problem for 2 years and I've been single the whole time. If he wanted them so little why on Earth would I stay in a place I hated and knew nobody just so he could play Disney dad 52 days out of the year?

JustLyra · 20/04/2021 12:49

December 2003 it came into effect in England @PuttingOnTheKitsch so could be a 17yo still in education

Think it was slightly later in Scotland (2005 maybe?)

Still. Old enough teens to have direct contact with their parent.

JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows · 20/04/2021 12:54

Oh and the only reason exH agreed to EOW rather than once a month is because he realised how much maintenance he'd have to pay. Not because he would miss his kids too much.

Not that I'm complaining, not really - I'd have hated it if he fought me for custody. When I kicked him out he said "there's no way in hell I'm having custody of the kids, they're yours". Good!