I would never want to be with a man who had used a prostitute

[ATieLikeRichardGere]

I hope I haven’t unwittingly ever been. When I know some friends of friends who have on stag dos etc. I find it really hard to reconcile with the fact that they then have girlfriends, wives, children. I can forgive people a lot of things, and I sort of believe that everything should be forgivable, but for some reason my visceral reaction to this is very extreme. I feel like I can more easily find sympathy for a terrorist, which probably isn’t rational, but I just feel like this is something I can’t accept. It’s so upsetting.

@Ginuwine Are you saying that women should have sex with men when they don’t want to in order to end prostitution? Or that Kiplings and box sets should be banned rather than buying sex?

YANBU (about the prostitution bit). Men who use prostitutes are statistically more likely to harm women in other ways too.

I think @Ginuwine is maybe trying to say that lots of posters, want sexless relationships and assume their partners will be ok with that.?

However that may not be the case so is it preferable to
A) split up
B) the woman have sex even though she doesn't want it.
C) the man going without it forever
D) the man having an affair which could lead to him leaving anyway
E) the man paying a sex worker so no emotional involvement.

I am not saying any of the above is correct or easy, just something to consider.

They all did it, he wasn’t proud of it at all, said she was stunningly beautiful but it felt very wrong as he kept thinking she’s only doing this because I’m paying her. It was very clinical to him. Some men get turned on by the seediness.

I suspect it's the power, and possibly, also the degradation and humiliation. These are exactly the kicks that motivate rape as a crime - it's not necessarily about sex at all - although manifestation in paying sex workers is a less extreme form of violating someone else's consent. It's transactional, not forced, but that seems to be the only difference.

There was a case of a serial killer operating in the East Anglian region about 15 years ago. A fellow sex-worker and friend of some of the women killed gave an interview at that time. She spoke of the power she detected her clients felt: that they were the ones paying her, that they could take the liberty of choosing from the sexual menu on offer, of negotiating a price, of knowing that they had her exactly where they wanted her: at their behest because she needed the next fix, and for the time of the transaction, at least, had her completely in their power. She spoke of being violently assaulted, of knowing the risks but having to accept and deal with them, and concluded 'there are men out there, for whom the power becomes too much'.

Having watched her sordid, tragic story I'm also convinced it isn't just the sexual urge that drives some men to pay for sex. And I feel a similar revulsion for the type of man who could ever exploit another human being's body in such a way.

I found out a year into my first relationship that my ex had slept with a prostitute. I was so disgusted and it changed everything for me. He wasn't the same person and I knew I didn't want my future husband to have that on his list of things done. The relationship lasted another year (I should've quit long before) and now I'm with someone who doesn't even like strip Clubs...

YANBU. It’s paid rape and exploiting vulnerable women who have often been abused throughout their lives.

I could never respect a man who did it, much less sleep with one.

[quote ATieLikeRichardGere]@Ginuwine Are you saying that women should have sex with men when they don’t want to in order to end prostitution? Or that Kiplings and box sets should be banned rather than buying sex?[/quote]

Oh yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying.

@sweeneytoddsrazor

I think *@Ginuwine* is maybe trying to say that lots of posters, want sexless relationships and assume their partners will be ok with that.?

However that may not be the case so is it preferable to
A) split up
B) the woman have sex even though she doesn't want it.
C) the man going without it forever
D) the man having an affair which could lead to him leaving anyway
E) the man paying a sex worker so no emotional involvement.

I am not saying any of the above is correct or easy, just something to consider.

This is exactly what I was saying and thank you.

B) is horrendous and I'm not saying that this is right, ever.

But then you are left with A), D) and E), because there are plenty of men who don't ever envisage C) as an option. They just don't.

@BrumBoo
Your relative may or may not visit the Far East (China? Japan? S. Korea?) for that reason, but its a hell of a way to travel/language barrier to negotiate for something that can be found just as easily in any U.K. town/city. The implication meanwhile that “single men” would only visit those three incredibly interesting countries for sex is equal parts ridiculous and offensive.

I know someone who has used over 100 through his 20's and 30's before settling into marriage and becoming a model husband and dad. I still can not believe his wife is ok with it. She reconciled it as a transaction that everyone is happy with He definitely compartmentalises the issue and often seems to display the whole madonna/whore complex.

[quote supermoonrising]@BrumBoo
Your relative may or may not visit the Far East (China? Japan? S. Korea?) for that reason, but its a hell of a way to travel/language barrier to negotiate for something that can be found just as easily in any U.K. town/city. The implication meanwhile that “single men” would only visit those three incredibly interesting countries for sex is equal parts ridiculous and offensive.[/quote]
He has made no secret of his reasons for visiting. 'Purely for pleasure har har' would be the respinse you'd get of you asked him yourself, he has no shame even if the rest of us do. I do not suggest all single older men visit Thailand and Vietnam for these reasons alone, but thanks to men like him many people do jump to assumptions.

It would be a dealbreaker for me too. It's not just paying for sex, it's everything it stands for about the objectification of women and so many who sex work are very vulnerable. It's a hard no from me.

I am increasingly very uncomfortable with pornography too. It's normalised in our culture, but it's inherently built on very worrying systems that harm women and broadly harms men too.

Trying to completely criminalize people buying/selling sexual services is as pointlessly as trying to criminalize abortion. It is going to happen regardless. The issue is how to make it as least harmful as possible for those at risk.

This isn’t about forgiving or not - this is about being - reasonably - choosy about who you date. There are over 3 billion men in the world - you can’t date all of them!

There are loads of traits that are perfectly acceptable in modern society that still don’t fit the profile of “someone I would want to date”. And that is fine - I get to choose.

I’m not sure I believe that sexless marriages could be a key driver of prostitution. It doesn’t factor in any of the stories I do know. I’m open to any evidence on this but either way it doesn’t change the exploitative nature of prostitution. Such an explanation does seem to tie in with a narrative about sex being a need or an entitlement - something which edges towards the sinister for me.

There are lots of things that put me off men. This is one of them. Any hint of sleeping around does it too, amongst many other things, such as a poor grasp of written English. Various men have tried to tell me I'm too judgemental and wrong to get put off men for such things, but none of them have ever succeeded in sleeping with me. I don't go around telling men that they are wrong to have preferences with regards to whom they sleep with.

Why would any self respecting woman who cared about the lives of other women date such a man?

I never would and would judge anyone who did.

I was with you until the ridiculous terrorist bit. I have a line and anything beyond that line gets none of my sympathy, whatsoever.

@ATieLikeRichardGere

I’m not sure I believe that sexless marriages could be a key driver of prostitution. It doesn’t factor in any of the stories I do know. I’m open to any evidence on this but either way it doesn’t change the exploitative nature of prostitution. Such an explanation does seem to tie in with a narrative about sex being a need or an entitlement - something which edges towards the sinister for me.

So my explanation about sexless marriage (just one driver or aspect of this thing) has revealed for you something around male entitlement for sex... and that "edges towards the sinister" for you?

Male entitlement for sex is the very underpinning of the prostitution problem!!

It may be sinister but it has to be said. My illustration may not have sat comfortably with everyone but it's just one aspect of how having a naive view of men and sex doesn't help anyone.

Or marry a Chris who spends all their time on a console or playing Warhammer when not being amazing and gentle with the kids, and therefore eliminate any of the alpha ego bullshit that often leads to this stuff, or ensure they have such an ostensibly low sex drive that the issue is a non starter

If a man pays the market rate for a sexual encounter with a prostitute (who has chosen to be a sex worker and has not been forced to be a sex worker)

And how many men do you think, really do their very best to make sure the woman they’re paying hasn’t been trafficked? How would you check a man did his homework?

@mumoblue oh yes, the classic! "You'll end up alone". As if it's the worst thing in the world for a woman and something to be afraid of

The thought process being that women need to lower their expectations for poor little men with their little foibles to stand a chance against the excessively night standards women set...

Heaven forbid you're happy on your own eh!

Sadly most of the time people that think your standards need lowering are the ones with low standards already.

@Naunet

If a man pays the market rate for a sexual encounter with a prostitute (who has chosen to be a sex worker and has not been forced to be a sex worker)

And how many men do you think, really do their very best to make sure the woman they’re paying hasn’t been trafficked? How would you check a man did his homework?

They don't know! Unless they're in a super parochial area where they know the person is local (perish the thought!) they won't know.

If a man chooses to use this type of service they are interested in the shortest possible route to gaining that satisfaction. I don't think qualifying the background of the individual factors into that decision matrix.

The UK punters sort might take the time to note down details, but it isn't about the safety of the worker or the country of origin.

If you're in for a penny then you're in for the worst most self regarding behaviour so to speak.

@Ginuwine My view is I don’t think the entitlement should be explained away as something innate that can’t be changed. It seems just as much a socially constructed idea, a story that is told to excuse the harm caused.

@BrumBoo
No, if I had any inclination that he was using prostitutes I'd absolutely question leaving my children with him.

You do realise that the courts would disagree with you on this point. The family court is very much about putting the welfare of children first. How do you think this point would be argued in court?

I'd be interested to know your thoughts

The criminalizing of buying sex should absolutely be something that happens.

People selling sex are at the wrong end of the power balance and often not selling through true choice. Usually sellers have a drug/drink/pimp/lack of education/cant find work/sexual abuse history. Those that dont may be in the 1% but that 1% use their voice to try to make out it is a legitimate choice and it isn't.

I was more "open" as a teen but as an adult I don't like sex work.