Is my friend neglecting her children?

[hapilyanon]

I'll try to avoid useless information.

I have a friend who is expecting her forth child but the children she already has are not properly taken care of. They are all about a year or so apart bar the first child.

She dumps at least one of her 3 children at a friend's house or her parents house at all times, she nearly never has all her children at once.
They are allowed to eat whatever they want, usually fast food every night, they have constant reoccurring lice, she will treat them once or twice every few months but they still always end up with lice - I suppose it could be their friends but at one point you could see them crawling all over, even on the BABIES head!

They are filthy by mid day as the house is pretty dirty and she never wipes them down.
They don't brush their teeth or hair usually and I can see black cavities in the children's teeth.

They are not taught manners or patience. My friend regularly screams and her children and calls them names.

The oldest misses school at least a few days every month because her mother just can't be bothered taking her to school.

Is this neglect worthy of calling some kind of child services about? The children are mostly healthy, clothed and fed so I feel as I might be over reacting but it just feels wrong, especially seeing as she is careless enough to be having another.
I wish there was a step in between child services but what's your opinions?

Yes there's just so many sides of it, that's why it's so hard to see what I should do.
Nothing so extreme she can't care for her children properly though.

You’d be surprised. You might be right of course but a lot of people with health conditions don’t let on how bad things are, or how they can affect things like cognitive function etc.

Or she just doesn’t give a shit and doesn’t care enough. There’s no way any of us can know.

Either way just tell the school what you’ve observed and they’ll take it further.

Sound's like she doesn't care full stop.
There is careless and stupid history repeating itself.

@EmeraldShamrock

Yes. Whether SS would do anything other than parental classes I don't know. So many DC live in the same circumstances. It's awful. DS has friend he's 1 of 6 he is feral I feel terrible he is a child I've stopped the friendship he'll never have pal's because he can't behave and has no respect for things. Him and his siblings smash everything. It's sad It's not his fault he can do what he likes.

I know it's not your responsibility and I can understand you're concerned this child's behaviour might affect your son's, but surely stopping the friendship isn't helping? If he is "feral" a friend with a stable home where people are treated with respect and kindness might be very welcome to him, as well as giving him a glimpse of what society expects? Kids need boundaries so not having them probably is no fun for him either?

Some of this is neglect, some isn’t in terms of need for intervention. However, neither you nor anyone here is qualified to make that decision. Report your worries to professionals in a factual way and allow them to assess the situation

Yes this is neglect. You should take some sort of action whether it's trying to discuss it with her or just reporting to social services. They have teams who intervene with families that are struggling, it doesnt have to mean the children are taken away, they will support her to improve things first of all.

Thanks you, exactly my thoughts. I try not to judge her too much but seeing the situation is very frustrating.

OP, contract the school. Don't be fooled by the idea that she loves her kids so I can't be that bad. Sadly, love does not rule out abuse; most abusers love their children.

It sounds like your boyfriend and his sister had very difficult unhappy childhoods. Only now I'm a parent do I realise how much your upbringing shapes you, it's the only example of how to parent that we get. If their upbringing was even worse she might not see what she's doing as requiring much improvement, let alone being neglectful.

OP look at it this way - you can't work out how severe this is, so please involve professionals who can. Apart from other things them missing school is illegal and an extremely concerning sign of neglect.

The school will be aware - with things like this it's a picture building up - you will not be the only person who notices they are dirty and missing school.

As someone has said - be a voice for these kids, they can't speak for themselves. It's very unlikely the intervention would involve removing the children - there will be years of interventions before that would be considered as they are not being physically abused.

Help your friend.
Babysit when you can and cook her some meals to freeze.
Get your other friends to help too.

She needs a network to support and help her.

SS won't do anything for allowing your DC misbehave they can't stop DM going on to have her 7th DC.
This lady has been reported her house is clean.
Unfortunately as long as you don't hurt them you can raise DC as you choose.
She's extreme to me but not in a minority at all.
Many DC are suffering low level neglect.
I'd imagine teachers see a lot of it through poverty, addiction, illnesses.

One of these things alone could be viewed as just lax parenting or needing a friend or family member to step in and mention - but all these things together? Not at all okay.

Poor kids

It's hard to report someone you care about but ultimately the priority is to her children and her unborn child - something needs to be done sharpish.

Don't assume school's doing nothing.

I once worked with a family like this for several years and pushed for help weekly. It never met the threshold. Neglect is a tough one as it is partly subjective.

I left the job in the end due to it, I couldn't watch it anymore. Endless low level involvement, no change.

@HoneysuckIejasmine

If you were those children, would you want someone to help you?

Of course you should report asap.

This

Well put

You absolutely need to report this to SS or the NSPCC. I volunteer in child protection, and this is sadly a typical issue that we see. The ‘bar’ is very high for children to be removed. Normally SS speak to all agencies involved with the family i.e. education, health visitor, GP, any police concerns?, housing etc. Also, they speak to the extended family and the children’s fathers to see what support they can offer. SS will provide a written multi-agency assessment and plan to support the family, to hopefully support and improve the children’s wellbeing.

Wheres dad in all this ? Does she work ?
I'd be surprised if they're not already on someone's radar somewhere.

They quite possibly are on 'someone's radar' but safeguarding is a jigsaw.

So school office will be aware of the absenteeism - but possibly that's not being picked up because of covid disruption.

Class teachers will almost certainly have spotted the headlice - but many school age dc get reinfested quite frequently.

You've noticed that the parents are struggling at home - maybe no one else has said anything, especially if there's a family history of similar neglect, so the children's GPs & uncle clearly see nothing amiss...

Report to SS or to school safeguarding lead (just contact the school to ask who this is & they will give you contact details no questions asked).

It is vanishingly unlikely that SS will wish to remove these kids from loving but struggling parents. They will put other support in place once they decide this case meets their threshold.

Your report could easily be the tipping point for the family getting that help. Please don't hesitate any longer - you'll be doing absolutely the right thing.

@CorvusPurpureus

They quite possibly are on 'someone's radar' but safeguarding is a jigsaw.

So school office will be aware of the absenteeism - but possibly that's not being picked up because of covid disruption.

Class teachers will almost certainly have spotted the headlice - but many school age dc get reinfested quite frequently.

You've noticed that the parents are struggling at home - maybe no one else has said anything, especially if there's a family history of similar neglect, so the children's GPs & uncle clearly see nothing amiss...

Report to SS or to school safeguarding lead (just contact the school to ask who this is & they will give you contact details no questions asked).

It is vanishingly unlikely that SS will wish to remove these kids from loving but struggling parents. They will put other support in place once they decide this case meets their threshold.

Your report could easily be the tipping point for the family getting that help. Please don't hesitate any longer - you'll be doing absolutely the right thing.

@CorvusPurpureus from my experience every word of that is true.

OP, SS is not extreme at all. All you need to do to refer is have reasonable concern. Continual headlice that goes mostly untreated and black cavities without dental care from a dentist is definitely reasonable concern. It is the job of SS to decide what the next best step is. Most likely, they will offer support, which it sounds like she really needs.

Can you ring SS and before giving your name or information ask if it would be possible to either make an anonymous report or a confidential report with a guarantee that the family do not know where it came from?

@Sunnyfreezesushi

I am on of 3 and we were very close in age. I was the eldest and got loads of support from neighbours, school and family. My mother had PND and struggled a lot. Luckily family came to clean, took us to dentists and I stayed over at neighbours house quite frequently. My parents were well off and it was embarrassing for my mother to admit she struggled. Luckily, we had a lovely community to support her. Also through her church. When we grew up she did the same for other struggling mothers. So no, it is not non sense about community/support/the “olden days”. I have actually lived it. My grandmother grew up in a Communist Soviet country and had the same support. These children might be properly neglected but it could just be that the mum needs lots of practical help. Sad that so many people in this country rely on the nanny state to sort them out.

And yet still, even if you were correct, covid would have made that community support pretty difficult due to lack of household mixing. If the mother was struggling she should have reached out to child support agencies and said she was struggling so that her children could be adequately cared for. It’s not good enough to suggest it’s someone else’s responsibility. Now she’s planning to add to her family which again sounds like a bloody selfish and irresponsible thing to do.

You don't have kids, while that absolutely doesn't mean you shouldn't intervene if you see an issue it also means you haven't got a clue how hard having kids is! Don't care how informed you think you are, if you haven't got them then you don't know.

It is absolutely not neglectful for children to be a bit grubby in their own home. If I changed mine everytime they got a bit of banana, berry, avocado, hummous (notice healthy foods are bleeding messy) on them we'd get nothing else done.

They come home absolutely filthy from grannys house, not because she neglects them but exactly the opposite she does ALL the things. Walks in the woods, mud kitchens, crafts, baking, beach, etc.

Its not great for children to go to school dirty for obvious reasons and obviously they should be bathed/showered frequently. But being dirty inbetween times is just being a child (that doesn't have an OTT/neurotic mother).

Junk food... not great! How do you know its all the time? How often do you witness what she gives them? She may need support here, if she had a rubbish childhood then perhaps she has not been well educated on healthy eating. Many people aren't. And it helps not at all that huge amounts of marketing goes into pushing 'healthy' options that are absolutely loaded with sugar. It would be very very easy for you to cook some nutritional dishes and take them over or even do a shop or two... 'here, I know it sucks being pregnant and being so busy so thought this would help'. Fresh fruit/veg etc is also infinitely more expensive than a packet of biscuits and has a much shorter shelf life.

Teeth brushing... i really don't see how you can know this. My children brush their teeth morning and night, but noone but me/DH witness this! Once again, does she know that she should be taking very young children to the dentist? Does she know that milk at bedtime causes cavities (but would seem like a very sensible option to most)?

Can't believe you called a pregnant person lazy! If she has limited help from her partner then perhaps she is in survival mode. Growing a human while keeping 3 other small humans alive and working (even part time) is about as exhausting as life gets. Yeah, it sounds like she shouldn't of had a 4th, definitely not ideal, but what exactly do you expect her to do about that now?

Constant headlice is not great, but again does she know that you have to treat ALL the bedding, blankets, cushions etc? Does she have spare bedding or a tumble dryer to even make this doable?

What have you done to help? You will potentially be her sister in law. You are very very well placed to help! By all means involve SS if you really believe the children are suffering and she won't accept any help but that doesn't evolve you or your boyfriend of any responsibility. You are family. Help them!

You don't have kids, while that absolutely doesn't mean you shouldn't intervene if you see an issue it also means you haven't got a clue how hard having kids is!

As if that means you don't know neglect when you see it! Finding it hard is not an excuse for harmful neglect

If their heads are crawling with lice, imagine how sore their bottoms must be as I assume their mother wouldn't bother much with cleaning them either ☹️ Please help them