Is my friend neglecting her children?

[hapilyanon]

I'll try to avoid useless information.

I have a friend who is expecting her forth child but the children she already has are not properly taken care of. They are all about a year or so apart bar the first child.

She dumps at least one of her 3 children at a friend's house or her parents house at all times, she nearly never has all her children at once.
They are allowed to eat whatever they want, usually fast food every night, they have constant reoccurring lice, she will treat them once or twice every few months but they still always end up with lice - I suppose it could be their friends but at one point you could see them crawling all over, even on the BABIES head!

They are filthy by mid day as the house is pretty dirty and she never wipes them down.
They don't brush their teeth or hair usually and I can see black cavities in the children's teeth.

They are not taught manners or patience. My friend regularly screams and her children and calls them names.

The oldest misses school at least a few days every month because her mother just can't be bothered taking her to school.

Is this neglect worthy of calling some kind of child services about? The children are mostly healthy, clothed and fed so I feel as I might be over reacting but it just feels wrong, especially seeing as she is careless enough to be having another.
I wish there was a step in between child services but what's your opinions?

I’m sure the school are aware too.

I suppose you could take a completely different tack and instead of referring to the service offer to basically be the service on a temporary basis? I have helped friends out in difficult times, and had the same back from friends and family. It depends how much of yourself you have/ are willing to offer. But for example offering to help her with dinner or bedtime or to take the kids to the dentist, or pop around once a week and de louse the kids? It really depends if this is a temporary situation which she needs a little hand hold though or a longer term issue. It sounds like there is help, and that the kids are spending time in other environments. So it may be that if you speak to your friend she may be able to get more help from the people already around her. That would be the first thing social services would do is try to get the family and friends to step up more. She can self refer to social services, which would be the ideal situation really.

This sounds so familiar. Please report op because a non-relative report is a stronger indicator of abuse and taken more seriously. We reported a family member but it was deemed as a family dispute. Two of the children were placed with us. I can tell you that on reading this, it is probably worse than what you think. She could even be going out in the evenings leaving them. Another red flag is the repeat behaviour.

Also, does your friend get any help from Homestart and what's the Dad like? Is he doing anything for his children at all?

I was just about to ask where’s dad too

Anyway if one child missing school all the time and the kids have lice. School will already be involved and aware. Once new baby arrives a health visitor will be coming round and she will see what’s going on .

Definitely report. School/nursery are likely aware or have suspicions but any extra evidence can help when they don’t have enough to refer by themselves.

They might not be considered at risk enough for SS (I have been surprised where the line is before) but something like an early help plan might be good if she will engage with a family support worker

@hapilyanon Have you reported her? I really think you should. It is in the children's best interest to be looked after properly.

I'm sorry but how are you even questioning whether this is neglect, they all (including your friend) need help

It is quite sad isn’t it because if this mum was just offered a free weekly cleaner/help with washing and maybe some regular babysitting help she would probably be OK. In the olden days, neighbours would have rallied around to do this for a person struggling. Now we have social services - I wonder what actual help they will provide if someone actually just needs physical help and maybe a bit more money? Can the school help? Do the younger children qualify for free hours at preschool etc.?

And what have you done to "help your friend" @hapilyanon ?

I couldn’t be friends I don’t think if that’s her level of parenting. Perhaps 200 years ago that would have been acceptable, alongside shoving kids up chimneys. But nowadays when there is modern healthcare, dentistry and clean running water it’s most definitely neglect. For me allowing your children’s teeth to rot in their heads is unforgivable, that’s child abuse right there.

So I agree OP a step in between children services would be great! Some sort of local mum help group where people volunteer their services with help and cleaning etc. I am in Outer London and we do have a few of these. Unfortunately, sometimes people are just too embarrassed to use these services but perhaps have a look what is available locally and call anonymously and then you could suggest it to your friend?
The children definitely need to go to the dentist. 6 monthly checks are free on the NHS and they need to be taken asap.

In the olden days, neighbours would have rallied around to do this for a person struggling.

Can we stop with this nonsense please! In the “olden days” many mothers were left to struggle alone and today many mothers have neighbours, family and friends rallying round them.

Bollocks about the olden days.

There has always been neglect. Always.

Also maybe it's worth asking her how she feels? What does she think about her situation/her kids/how it's going? She might actively want help.

@Mummyoflittledragon

Yes, it is neglect and I absolutely would report this family. What is her reason for the many pregnancies? Is she addicted to newborns? Some women are then neglect / discard them once they become autonomous people? What about the father(s)?

It’s unlikely the children will be removed but hopefully she will get support. And maybe you could advise her to get counselling?

Takes 2 people to make a baby or are you just jumping on the bandwagon kicking a struggling pregnant woman whilst you say fuck all about the man??

Yes it does sound like they're being neglected and yes I think you should report it.

There is a step below children’s services, the Child and Family Wellbeing Service. You’d need to report to children’s services and they’ll do an assessment and either provide support or ‘step down’ to the CFWS. You can report anonymously.

Oof, definitely report but nothing may be done. I worked in a deprived area and it took 4 years of reporting a drug addict mother who left children home alone overnight before something was done. Unfortunately thresholds for neglect can be quite high if there are more serious cases about. Clothed and fed children may not draw that attention.

As someone who grew up in Foster care and childrend homes I wish people would think a bit more about this.. Being pulled out of a school disco and put in a car with all my stuff in black bin bags separated from ym sisters and brothers was fuckibg traumatising. I'm in my 20s now. My mum was partially disabled and just needed more support..

Why not help your friend? All the mums on here being like she's screams at her kids.. I've had Foster carers scream at me you name it. Everyone looses patience. She has 3 kids and pregnant.

Sounds like she needs help. Reporting before even talking to your friend is so shit of you. Sorry but how is that a friendship? Reporting social services will bring even more stress. Why not talk to her and see what's happening. As others have said headlice can be hard to deal with if there's a lot of you and keeps passing back and fourth I had them in Foster care for 6 years of my life didn't make a difference being in Foster care..

@Rukaya

Do you think the children will be happier if they are removed from their mother and placed with a stranger who matches your expectations of food quality and cleanliness better

Yes, they probably would, but thats unlikely to happen.

Do you have ANY idea about the care system. What a ridiculous comment.

@Sunnyfreezesushi

It is quite sad isn’t it because if this mum was just offered a free weekly cleaner/help with washing and maybe some regular babysitting help she would probably be OK. In the olden days, neighbours would have rallied around to do this for a person struggling. Now we have social services - I wonder what actual help they will provide if someone actually just needs physical help and maybe a bit more money? Can the school help? Do the younger children qualify for free hours at preschool etc.?

That’s absolute nonsense. The only difference is in the ‘olden days’ this would have been overlooked because there weren’t the agencies to protect children in the same way there are now and standards were lower overall.

Allowing your kids to eat shit, miss school and avoid teeth brushing is the very nature of neglect surely.

Yes.
Whether SS would do anything other than parental classes I don't know.
So many DC live in the same circumstances.
It's awful. DS has friend he's 1 of 6 he is feral I feel terrible he is a child I've stopped the friendship he'll never have pal's because he can't behave and has no respect for things.
Him and his siblings smash everything.
It's sad It's not his fault he can do what he likes.

Has this got much worse during covid times? I do think a lot of things have been missed in the past 13 months and a lot of parents have struggled without social support. The impact of things like toddler groups shutting and no soft play centres and only limited health visitor/midwife input has had a big impact. A lot of that "takes a village to raise a child" community stuff just happens because we are around other people. Covid has been so dreadful for so many people, and vulnerable isolated families like this are where you really see the damage.