Is my friend neglecting her children?

[hapilyanon]

I'll try to avoid useless information.

I have a friend who is expecting her forth child but the children she already has are not properly taken care of. They are all about a year or so apart bar the first child.

She dumps at least one of her 3 children at a friend's house or her parents house at all times, she nearly never has all her children at once.
They are allowed to eat whatever they want, usually fast food every night, they have constant reoccurring lice, she will treat them once or twice every few months but they still always end up with lice - I suppose it could be their friends but at one point you could see them crawling all over, even on the BABIES head!

They are filthy by mid day as the house is pretty dirty and she never wipes them down.
They don't brush their teeth or hair usually and I can see black cavities in the children's teeth.

They are not taught manners or patience. My friend regularly screams and her children and calls them names.

The oldest misses school at least a few days every month because her mother just can't be bothered taking her to school.

Is this neglect worthy of calling some kind of child services about? The children are mostly healthy, clothed and fed so I feel as I might be over reacting but it just feels wrong, especially seeing as she is careless enough to be having another.
I wish there was a step in between child services but what's your opinions?

@forinborin

How do you know they have fast food every day or that she never has all of them together - unless you live together and observe them on the daily basis? I usually order fast food / pizza when friends are visiting - from that perspective my children are also eating fast food "every day" - when they are observed, of course. Do you think the children will be happier if they are removed from their mother and placed with a stranger who matches your expectations of food quality and cleanliness better? What a bizarre thing to do to a "friend". If she is indeed a friend, and you think she might be struggling or feeling overwhelmed - go and help her. That's what friends in my universe do, at least.

The children are dirty, their teeth are rotting because they're never brushed and they constantly have lice. On top of that the eldest misses school regularly for no legitimate reason and the mother screams at her children and calls them names. That's a bit more than a difference in parenting styles, don't you think? It is definitely neglect, which is a form of abuse. In fact, it is the most common form of child abuse.

I’d say thats neglect and best to report. She may need some support that they can offer.
Defo Sounds like some of the child’s basic needs are being neglected.

Being fed, dressed and housed are basic standards for parenting. Good parenting is so much more. I am surprised you haven't said anything to your befriend by now. Yes someone does need to report to social services, she needs more support or help understanding how to take care of the kids she has.

There are different levels of support offered through SS -- the goal would probably be first to support this mum to make sure the children's needs are met. They avoid removal unless it is really necessary.

I think you definitely should report -- as others have said it would probably be best to talk to the school safeguarding officer about your concerns so that they can monitor the situation at school and also ring the SS number at the local authority. They will then take over and investigate to see if they feel intervention is needed.

The headlice and lack of dental care especially are very concerning. You are not going overboard by ringing SS.

OP you need to report this, it is neglect. If you look at the impact of neglect on brain development it is harrowing - you can easily google the image and you’ll see the impact on a three year old. Please report today, you’re being a good friend if you do report, if she can’t cope she will get support.

Sounds like mum is really struggling poor thing. Please report so that she can get the help that she needs.

Where is the dad?

OP, please report it. Contact the school if you don't like the idea of going straight to social services. The children are being neglected and neglect is a form of abuse. It's quite likely that the school is already aware of some issues. You reporting them will help them get a fuller picture of the situation which will make it easier to get the right help and support put in place. Please ignore the handful of posters who think that you should keep out or have suspicious motives for getting involved Unless what you're describing is the absolute tip of the iceberg the children won't be removed BTW.

Yes , report.
The school will be aware but recording concerns forms part of a bigger picture.

@forinborin

How do you know they have fast food every day or that she never has all of them together - unless you live together and observe them on the daily basis? I usually order fast food / pizza when friends are visiting - from that perspective my children are also eating fast food "every day" - when they are observed, of course. Do you think the children will be happier if they are removed from their mother and placed with a stranger who matches your expectations of food quality and cleanliness better? What a bizarre thing to do to a "friend". If she is indeed a friend, and you think she might be struggling or feeling overwhelmed - go and help her. That's what friends in my universe do, at least.

So what's your line? Neglecting them so they have cavities and constant head lice is totally ok, just different parenting right? Screaming at them is cool too. What about a smack or a punch? What of it wasn't a cavity but a twisted ankle or poor vision affecting their schooling?

Do you honestly think the Mom deserves more concen than the kids she isn't looking after v well?

It won’t meet threshold but they may be offered support services.

I’d report to the school. They are probably already concerned so you can give them a better idea of all children. The mum sounds overwhelmed. Hopefully SS can give her more support.

I would have thought the school is already aware of the circumstances? It's not always obvious which children are being abused emotionally, but physical abuse or neglect is something which teachers and TAs will spot.

Lice. Ingrained dirt. Unwashed clothes. Irregular attendance. Tiredness. Lack of engagement from parents re: homework/reading. Attitude towards others. Hunger. Untreated illnesses/issues.

All these signs on a daily basis will be screaming physical neglect.

Report though OP. It's important that children have all of us as allies in this world.

Do you think the children will be happier if they are removed from their mother and placed with a stranger who matches your expectations of food quality and cleanliness better

Yes, they probably would, but thats unlikely to happen.

Absolutely report, the children are not having their basic needs met and is also a safeguarding issue

Report. Hopefully social services will put some sort of support in place to help her work on the various issues.

Do what you can as a friend - if she complains about SS interfering, find ways to say how helpful you know they can be. If you can, find ways that preserve her dignity - for instance if they've given her advice about lice treatment, say "ooh, what did they recommend, I'm finding it ever so difficult to deal with DC's?" And obviously any practical help or modelling good parenting you can do without coming across as patronising is good.

Along with housing, clothing and feeding our children another basic need we have to meet is their hygiene/health needs. For this reason I would report. The lice and dental issues are worrying, obviously anyone can get a cavity or enamel defect or catch a parasite like head lice, but it's how we deal with these things. If a child is showing cavities you take them to the dentist (if you can find one I do know they can be a post code lottery) and/or up their dental hygiene, reduce sugars/ keep only to meal times, start a tooth brushing star chart. If you have recurring head lice, you make sure pillows and clothes are all washed on a high heat, treat with the best product the pharmacist can recommend, and use a preventative spray and regularly comb them through, long hair gets tied up and short hair gets cut short. Not taking action with things like this is worrying because if you don't get treatment for dental cavity's would you for an abyss which could be much more dangerous? If you don't treat for head lice would you treat ring worm, chicken pox of scabies or something which looks similar bur is much more dangerous like shingles, measles, hives/anaphylactic reactions, in some cases certain cancers, or meningitis.

Referring to social services does not mean she will have her children taken away, but it does mean that the health visitor, the school nurse, the school, any nursery provider, family, friends, the dad, mum and other services can be aware of the issues and try to get some positive things in motion for those kids. As it is it sounds like they are not on anyone's radar.

I do wonder if maybe the Mum has some PND, trauma or their has been domestic abuse or violence? Other mental health issues or maybe even alcohol/substance misuse? She sounds very unhappy and the kids do sound neglected in some ways, so in the long term I think it will help the whole family to be able to get some of this out in the open. It will be painful, Mum will be angry, SS can be pretty shit sometimes and services are stretched, but it will be worse if this goes on for longer and escalates to the point where the kids do need to be taken away from their mother or where something terrible happens.

You should absolutely raise these concerns with your local children’s services. In all likelihood it would probably then be stepped down to whatever family support service your local authority have. There are indeed many different levels of intervention. But children’s services can and will make that decision. You don’t know if concerns have been raised before, you may be adding to a wider picture.

I’m not splitting hairs for the sake of it and I know it wasn’t stated like this in the OP but I can’t help but think that framing these things as ‘reporting a friend’ is really problematic. It’s not communist Russia. Sharing concerns about the welfare of children with the agencies who have the legal responsibility to safeguard that welfare is ok, really 🙂

Ignore forin, of course you report it. You can’t provide the full time level of cafe needed and the grandparents are aware. They might have had a report from school but the more reports the better for a bigger picture

Doesn't dad care either?

As @TrickyBiscuits said, it is so much about the language we use. It's not reporting the Mum to the social, dobbing her in to the government sanctioned child snatching service or grassing her to the state. It's raising a safeguarding concern with the relevant authority. It's helping the children/helping find the right help for the family. You're not destroying lives you are trying to help improve them.

The children are mostly healthy, clothed and fed so I feel as I might be over reacting

If your baseline for bringing up children is only mostly healthy (ignoring headline infestation or neglected dental care), clothed (ignoring the cleanliness of them) and fed (ignoring the quality of their diet) then your is set too low.

This is neglect you are describing.

My friend regularly screams and her children and calls them names.

This is abuse you are describing.

Maybe she’s overwhelmed, in a shit relationship, hasn’t the resources or education or capacity to deal with the situation. I’m sure there’s reasons.

But the children won’t be helped if no one steps in.

Sounds like mum is really struggling poor thing. Please report so that she can get the help that she needs.

You describe her as your friend. Presumably she sees you the same way. I might be naive but why don't you ask her if she's struggling and see if you can help/make suggestions of help?

A friend of mine was dealing with a family emergency, as a result of which her DH was left holding the fort. Children went to school with unbrushed hair and less than pristine clothes, when they were usually immaculately turned out. This was for two days, ans the school called social services. (They did nothing about it once they understood the circumstances, only thing the parents had done wrong was not let the school know what was going on)

So if SS will act on this, surely they need to know about your friend.

Sounds like neglect to me OP. Sad situation all round but I hope she can get sorted.

Where’s the Dad in all this? Have I missed that somewhere?
Apologies if so