To let him wear dresses

[AllHallowsEve14]

One of my DS (4) wears all sorts of clothes including dresses, tights, leggings, as well as typical "boys" clothes. He just likes what he likes. All good. He starts school this year and wants to wear school dresses or skirts, I don't have a problem with this although I understand children can be cruel I don't think I should stop my son from being himself. However, my ex has said no. He doesn't want to give other kids to "ammo" to bully our ds with. I'm really not sure what to do, what would you do? Any advice would be appreciated.

Maybe he has an older sister who goes in dresses/skirts so wants to dress like that when he goes to school?

And in 5 months he is not going to change his mind. OK.

Girls/women are ‘allowed’ (as they should be) to wear whatever they want but boys aren’t?

Feminists fought for this and won this "battle" for us. There's been no equivalent mainstream men's movement although when there's stories of secondary school boys wearing a skirt as summer uniform, I wonder if there will be a shift there. Our secondary school allows boys to wear PE kit on hot days but I feel sorry for the boys in other schools stuck in full length trousers.

It’s obviously amazing that girls are free to wear what they want and express themselves through any fashion choice they wish. I’m just concerned that all the pp’s who are horrified at the idea of their sons wearing dresses are just reinforcing to them that girls are lesser and that any feminine qualities are wrong and should be quashed immediately.

@Happycat1212

I never actually commented on the ops child wearing a dress just that it’s annoying that people are blindly saying trousers are easier 🙄

Pinafores are great. Tights are difficult but with pinafores you don't get the problem that boys have with bunched up waist bands etc My dd was a fan of those stretchy jersey ones that are easy to pull on and off.

This isn't an issue as she's well past primary now but I've seen that summer dresses come as culottes/play suits now which is handy for handstands days.

It’s obviously amazing that girls are free to wear what they want and express themselves through any fashion choice they wish. I’m just concerned that all the pp’s who are horrified at the idea of their sons wearing dresses are just reinforcing to them that girls are lesser and that any feminine qualities are wrong and should be quashed immediately.

Considering that boys uniform does not come in the "fashionable" choices that girls do (hearts on zips, scallop trim on polo collars etc), boys are already sent that message. I think that retailers are missing a trick by not offering more tweaked uniform choices to boys who'd probably prefer a less utilitarian design.

My DS has began wearing dresses etc since about the same age.

Complete freedom around the house and with family to wear whatever he wanted.

You are right of course your DS should be able to wear the girls uniform if he wants but I really do think it would set him up for the bullies, I know that's not right and it shouldn't be but unfortunately it is.

My advice would be to keep it at home for now, perhaps the occasional day out would be a nice compromise.

My DS is a teenager now, his peers are much more accepting of this type of thing than a lot of adults, particularly on MN I'm afraid.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

Personally I don't think dresses or skirts should be part of school uniform for anyone

My daughter with ASD would only wear skirts for the first 10 years of her life, from the age of about 18 months she would scream if I put her in trousers.

@AllHallowsEve14 Let him wear what he likes. Kids of 4 won’t care.

'It’s obviously amazing that girls are free to wear what they want and express themselves through any fashion choice they wish. I’m just concerned that all the pp’s who are horrified at the idea of their sons wearing dresses are just reinforcing to them that girls are lesser and that any feminine qualities are wrong and should be quashed immediately.'

Pretty sure most posters know it shouldn't be like this, and there's nothing wrong with boys wearing dresses, they just prefer to protect their son from being a target for bullies rather than gain woke points. Yes it's wrong that children have to conform to gender stereotypes or they get bullied, but it won't be my 4 year old who takes one for the team to change this. Change has to be made at policy level in schools regarding uniforms.

If school allow it I would allow him to wear what he wants. Schools should promote equality and the other 4 year old are too young to care. It seems very unfair that girls get to wear trousers and boys aren't allowed to wear skirts. Be a good role model for him and encourage them to be confident.

Check with the school. But in our experience of primary school (my son is year 2 now) hardly any of the girls wear dresses as it’s not practical, they all seem to wear lovely little black trousers with a silver charm on them and white blouses, then the boys tend to wear grey trousers and pale blue shirts. In the summer, when it’s hot, the boys switch to grey shorts and the girls switch to black PE style shorts.

No. He is a child he doesnt know better or whats expected of him. Youre an adult, you are supposed to teach him how to behave and act.

I dont know why people are comparing this to 'dressing up' - it's just dressing. A ordinary school dress isnt a costume for fun it's a uniform.

Also OP has stated that the school does not have a 'boys' and 'girls' uniform so it is unlikely to be against the rules for a boy to wear a dress. Our school has recently said that any child can wear any part of the uniform and taken out reference to girls and boys.

I'm disappointed at the attitudes on this thread to be honest. People on mumsnet have a lot of issues with trans people (I understand why in terms of womens safe spaces etc) but maybe if everyone didnt want to reinforce arbitrary 'rules' such as 'dresses for girls, trousers for boys', and people were free to wear what they wanted and do hobbies etc that they wanted without so much judgement, then there wouldn't be so much pressure for people to feel they have to change gender in the first place. I didn't realise people on here were so old fashioned. Surely if we say boys cant do everything then we cant complain when people say girls cant do everything they want

The main thing for me is that I don't want my kid to be the one that is 'remembered' in years to come.
If you want yours to be a trailblazer and it's normal to have children in your social circle to be a bit ' out there', crack on.
In my small town in Lancashire it would be very difficult for a child .
However kids change their mind every two minutes and by the time he goes to school there will probably be a different issue happening.

I would have standard school uniform of identical track suits/trousers and polo shirts all the way through primary school and smart but practical, appropriately cut, trousers, shirts, sweatshirts for secondary. No skirts or dresses at all. Good quality trainers for all too and ergonomically designed back packs.

It would solve so many problems.

Shorts is a good compromise, my DS loved his shorts whatever the weather

@littlebillie

Shorts is a good compromise, my DS loved his shorts whatever the weather

yes I agree... shorts are good

@Lindy2

I would say no.

To him they are just clothes- which is absolutely fine. However, he doesn't understand that a dress will be seen as different and would be unexpected. He won't be prepared for the comments or the reactions he is likely to get.

At age 4 to suddenly find yourself an unexpected centre of attention (whether right or wrong) when you're also going through the major adjustment of starting school would be really unfair on him and potentially very stressful for him.

I guess he hasn't worn a uniform for anything yet so isn't aware that it means wearing the same as everyone else. How does he even know there is a boy and girl uniform? Surely you just give him the standard trousers and top and say these will be your school clothes. If you give any 4 year old a choice of clothes you are going to naturally go for a pretty varied, unconventional selection. Mine would have chosen pyjamas, welly boots and a cowboy hat as their school uniform of choice.

The decision to wear a dress in public or not can be taken when he is older and when he actually understands what that decision is.

Absolutely this.

He doesn't know that all the other boys are going to be wearing the boys uniform but you do. It's unfair to let him make that decision when he doesn't under it.

If he still wants to after the first year then fine but not to start.

He's 4 and sounds like a right character.

My only worry would be if he got bullied, I think a full and frank discussion with him. Shorts to begin with and then go with the flow. It's so wrong and people should be able to wear what they want especially at 4 but I wouldn't want him putting his head above the parapet so to speak, without him being forewarned.

@DrinkFeckArseBrick

I dont know why people are comparing this to 'dressing up' - it's just dressing. A ordinary school dress isnt a costume for fun it's a uniform.

Also OP has stated that the school does not have a 'boys' and 'girls' uniform so it is unlikely to be against the rules for a boy to wear a dress. Our school has recently said that any child can wear any part of the uniform and taken out reference to girls and boys.

I'm disappointed at the attitudes on this thread to be honest. People on mumsnet have a lot of issues with trans people (I understand why in terms of womens safe spaces etc) but maybe if everyone didnt want to reinforce arbitrary 'rules' such as 'dresses for girls, trousers for boys', and people were free to wear what they wanted and do hobbies etc that they wanted without so much judgement, then there wouldn't be so much pressure for people to feel they have to change gender in the first place. I didn't realise people on here were so old fashioned. Surely if we say boys cant do everything then we cant complain when people say girls cant do everything they want

Tbh most people said he should wear what he likes out of school. In the current climate people (especially adults) are quick to label boys who like dresses as trans girl when they should be left to be a boy who likes dresses until they are old enough to understand otherwise. It's not because MN is anti-trans. The general consensus is that kids should be allowed to be gender non-conforming and not have adults put ideas in their head about changing genders, pronouns etc It's virtually impossible for a 4 year old to fight against this kind of culture and if he's fine with trousers then he'll have a much easier time at school wearing them.

What's with all the emphasis on clothes - it's not brilliant for young children of either sex. I was not allowed to choose my clothes as a 4 year old - my mum just bought them, or more likely they were hand me downs, and they appeared in my cupboard. My mother didn't ask me what I liked - they were just there. I did the same with my children when they were v young. I'm not keen on children of either sex wearing fairy dresses, animal suits, ballet tutus, glitter etc when out and about. Just yuck. OK for dress-up at home.

Same at 4 he shouldnt be dictating what to wear anyway, so you have been very weak op allowing this to be honest, at 4 mine wore what i bought and what I chose for the day??

Pretty sure most posters know it shouldn't be like this, and there's nothing wrong with boys wearing dresses, they just prefer to protect their son from being a target for bullies rather than gain woke points. Yes it's wrong that children have to conform to gender stereotypes or they get bullied, but it won't be my 4 year old who takes one for the team to change this. Change has to be made at policy level in schools regarding uniforms.

Have you read the thread? Most pp’s don’t think there’s ‘nothing wrong with boys wearing dresses’. That’s abundantly clear. And it has nothing to do with ‘woke points’, it’s to do with the debate around gender stereotyping. It’s about teaching our children to be kind and respectful and not to bully others because of what they’re wearing.

This is a difficult one here - it really depends on your principles and how laid back your child is. You can send your boy in a dress and some of the children may ask him why he’s in it - will he be bothered by that comment? He may get told he looks like a girl - is he ok with that? Fine to explain that clothes are just clothes?
I have a girl who insists on wearing the boys uniform and chooses more clothes now from the boys section. I also her complete independence with her clothes choices because she gets very, very stressed about what she wears so as long as she has something on I don’t care.
Would your child be stressed, tearful wearing shorts? Does he prefer and is happier in girls clothes? You have to weigh up how he feels over these issues.

To be honest people can say what they like in the interests of being 'woke', but a boy who turns up to a primary school in Britain is almost certainly going to be a victim of bullying. I think it's irresponsible for any parent to allow that to happen.

I honestly posted thinking I'd get support and advised to encourage my dc to dress how they like. To be the change I want to see etc etc. I completely understand the issue of bullying and I don't want that at all for my son but it seems like adults are far more bothered by this than other children.

My son isn't trans, this is not a trans issue.

Thank you so much for the kind, understanding replies.

@AllHallowsEve14

I honestly posted thinking I'd get support and advised to encourage my dc to dress how they like. To be the change I want to see etc etc. I completely understand the issue of bullying and I don't want that at all for my son but it seems like adults are far more bothered by this than other children.

My son isn't trans, this is not a trans issue.

Thank you so much for the kind, understanding replies.

It may be popular these days to allow small children to dictate every part of their life, but I find that popular parenting trends usually only benefit the parents who can brag about their free spirited parenting. It often very negatively effects the children, as it would in this instance with bullying that could last for his entire school life.