To be miffed at all the presents for being a wife and mother

[Creamcustards]

Inspired by the baby shower thread.

What is it that makes us ‘reward’ getting married and having children with money and gifts?! I mean, surely the joy of the marriage / the child is enough!?

Yes, I am single and childfree. Maybe a little bit bitter?!! When I get a pet or a new job or there some other happy event in my life I don’t get showered with gifts / money!

Grr.

[quote HumunaHey]@SpringtimeSummertime My point wasn't about it being a choice.

My point was it being downplayed and likened to buying a pet. Seeking out a cure for cancer (e.g. given by PP) is a choice. By your logic, because they sought out that cure, we shouldn't bother celebrate it.

And yes, raising a child well does require some skills, you are in a sink or swim situation and some, unfortunately, sink.[/quote]
Again, read my post properly. Nowhere in there did I mention a pet. The reference to ‘funding a cure for cancer’ was an example of someone that would be extremely, difficult, impossible perhaps and only very few people with very special skills could achieve this. Pregnancy and raising children is not that.

@Rooandrose

To answer your question, It’s expensive to have children so traditionally people have given a newly wed couple, or new parents a bit of cash before they inevitably start spending all their cash on baby related things! Likewise gifts, it’s a way of showing support for the love and bond of the family.

This is different to when someone has done well at a job. A new job is something that also deserves celebrating but doesn’t actually make sense to congratulate someone for their new job by giving them cash?

I once had a friend who constantly moaned about her friends baby showers and hen doos and said it was really her who should be showered with gifts because she was the only single one. It made her sound bitter. Being happy for someone who has what you want is a way of telling the universe you can also have that joy in your life too.

People who can't afford their offspring's needs shouldn't be breeding in the first place.

@SpringtimeSummertime I think like most people even in a relationship I never had any of these.

Engagement party (did not have one and do not know anyone who did)
Hen/stag party (was not planning on getting one but my bridesmaids insisted on organizing a spa day)
Wedding party (i assume you mean the wedding reception where me and fiancé have paid for the food and venue)
Homecoming (Who does that!!! first I ever heard of it)
‘We’ve got a new house’ nope
‘Housewarming’ nope though we did get 5 pounds off a old teacher and family friend after she insisted profusely after I kept saying it was really not necessary.
‘We’re pregnant’ (nope and won't be having one that is just creepy)
Party to reveal whether it’s a boy/girl (maybe combined with the baby shower if it means having all family who will want to know in one place rather then having the same phone conversation over and over also no grandparent can complain why they were not the first ones told)
Baby shower party (only if combined with reveal if it's a boy or girl)
Naming party (nope and won't be having one)

HumunaHey
My point was it being downplayed and likened to buying a pet. Seeking out a cure for cancer (e.g. given by PP) is a choice. By your logic, because they sought out that cure, we shouldn't bother celebrate it.

You agree that seeking a cure for cancer and the same as choosing to have children?
You must do, you’ve used it as an example.
I think I’ll leave it there with you

I think it's more about practicality. It used to be (normally isn't now but this is where the tradition comes from) that getting married meant starting a new household, so a newly married couple needed a load of stuff and would be given it as a wedding present. Babies similarly need stuff - and when I gave birth, pretty much all the presents were for the baby, not for me. A couple of friends dropped off meals, which I guess were presents for me and DH, but again that's practicality - it meant DH and I had more time to cope with the demands of a brand new human.

I do think your friends should celebrate your achievements. But the average wedding costs £30k or something now I think? I doubt when you have a significant life event you have a £££££ party and invite all your friends to celebrate. I think wedding gifts are partly to offset the cost of the price per head that the bride and groom have spent on food, entertainment etc.

Wait, is it traditional to give parents cash when they’re having a new baby? I don’t think that’s a tradition at all. All the presents we got were for the baby and some people gave me a little present alongside that, all of which were ‘mum’ branded toiletries from what I can remember. We got some gift vouchers for kids clothes and a couple of people put small amounts of cash in the baby’s pram, which I put in the baby’s bank account. If anyone had actually given us a sum of cash as a gift I’d have been mortified.

There’s not a lot to be gained by disagreeing over whether having children is or isn’t an achievement, though. There isn’t a finite amount of achievement that can be used up by people having kids or getting married or anything like that.

When I had a baby last year it felt like an amazing achievement. I was so proud of my body, and I still am. I got my DD out alive, and then breastfed until she was gigantic. I’m proud of that. That’s not to say it’s a particularly interesting or unusual achievement, by any stretch!! But it felt pretty major for me. Lots of my friends are having babies, which is also incredible. I will never underestimate the female body again! The ones that aren’t having kids are —very sensible, if you ask me! — getting exciting new jobs and are buying houses. I would include travelling the world in a general idea of ‘achievement’ but obviously that’s on hold at the moment. My career is not my priority at the moment, it’s fine, but kind of treading water a bit. It all balances out.

I think it’s important to celebrate and acknowledge other people’s achievements or exciting/important things happening in their lives, whether they have anything to do with marriage and babies or not.

@Xmasbaby11

I agree op. There should be more celebration pf wider achievements such as doing a Masters in your 40s, finally getting a much wanted job, getting a book published, losing 6 stone, etc such as my friends have done. I am married with 2dc which is due mostly to luck. There are other things I wish I'd achieved that I haven't. I don't know what the answer is but I always try to remember and ask about my friends' interests and passions, and send cards and gifts for exciting events. I hope your friends do this for you.

You are a rare one.

@SpringtimeSummertime

HumunaHey My point was it being downplayed and likened to buying a pet. Seeking out a cure for cancer (e.g. given by PP) is a choice. By your logic, because they sought out that cure, we shouldn't bother celebrate it.

You agree that seeking a cure for cancer and the same as choosing to have children?
You must do, you’ve used it as an example.
I think I’ll leave it there with you

If you've managed to jump to that massive conclusion then, yes, you really should leave it there.

@MiddleParking in some cultures it actually is. In asia such as japan or china red money envelopes are very popular as are gold coins. My mum was gifted a several of these envelopes and a gold coin with my lunar zodiac sign on it

Getting pregnant is the one that gets me and marriage. You celebrate a wedding that statistically is likely to end in divorce with some vowes that nobody will ever actually hold you too (people obviously leave a marriage before death us do part and there are few penalty clauses for breaking that contract). Likewise getting pregnant there are 7 billion people on the planet although for some it doesn't happen first time there obviously isn't much skill in it if 7 billion births have occured. To be honest I don't hold many parties and when I do I don't make up an iffy reason I just say I'm having a party. It does amaze me how we spend more time celebrating baby showers than hard academic achievements like completing a MSC or winning an award.

When a friend has a baby I usually take them cake or some sort of treat, because giving birth is brutal and often traumatic, and caring for/feeding a newborn is one of the most exhausting experiences a woman will have. It's quite different to getting a new pet.

@LemonMeringueThreePointOneFour

I absolutely agree. We don't seem to value things that people have really worked for nearly as much as those things which happen by dint of good fortune (and which, arguably, should be a reward in and of themselves).

But we seem to be in the minority, unfortunately, OP.

Well said.

Luck seems to be rewarded and celebrated more than the fruits of hard and often lonely work.

@CeeceeBloomingdale

Maybe you just have shit friends if they don't celebrate with you. I might buy for my friends to say congratulations, sorry you're feeling down, get well soon, saw this and thought of you or simply for no reason - Happy Tuesday! They do the same in return.

I don't think a new pet is the same as a new baby though. Growing a human is a bit different from visiting the cat and dog shelter and a new job isn't the same as a wedding. I might buy token gifts or cards for the former but would feel more inclined to spend a lot more on babies and weddings.

A new job is a personal achievement, nice to mark it but it's not going to change my life.

You have totally demonstrated the OP's point. Congratulations.

None of my single friends has ever bought anything for the birth of my children. Nor do I expect them to.

If they go on to have children I will get them something, because it’s what I do. I take the OP’s point, and I accept it’s the general experience, but it isn’t mine

@LemonMeringueThreePointOneFour

This thread has actually made me quite tearful. It can be extremely tough watching your friends get coupled up while you stay single and seeing them have kids while you remain childless (and infertile). And then all these things are celebrated multiple times.

It's shit being on the outside, and for someone else (another woman, no less) to come along and say, "Well you sound bitter!" is pretty fucking callous imo.

Yes. There's definitely a pecking order in our society and the unmarried, childfree female is often the target of scorn and the insulting "bitter" accusations.

To be clear - I don’t expect presents from anyone, not just single and child free friends, but none of them has given presents

[quote CeeceeBloomingdale]@LemonMeringueThreePointOneFour A thesis is a personal achievement though, not the same as welcoming a new person to the family through marriage or birth. I'd be pleased for you, might buy you a little something and have a night out with you but beyond that my life wouldn't be changed. If a family members gets married or a friend has a baby that's a more permanent change to my world as they are now part of it.[/quote]

So it's all about you and your "world," eh?

Mother’s Day gifts are from the kids - so if you don’t have any you won’t get any! Even if you do have kids you’ll probably have to remind them yourself. If you’ve slogged your way through parenthood you probably deserve the odd bunch of flowers funded by yourself!

Baby showers are really giving gifts for the baby.

There’s nothing stopping you having parties for anything you want. Some people have divorce parties - good for them!

A lot of us have pets and promotions and might get married and have kids too - it’s not either or. So then you still wouldn’t have it equal. It’s a ridiculous point, really. Most parties you have to arrange yourself and seldom end up quids in.

"What is it that makes us ‘reward’ getting married and having children with money and gifts?! "
"My DM described my having kids as a ‘gift to the entire family which has brought so much joy’ x"

Babies and marriage were assets to a family, community and society. Unless you are raising working dogs, dogs aren't (and I love dogs). Children still are assets. Living under lock down has shown many people how much they do value family, friends and people in general and need them for good health.

If you want gifts for other things, throw a get-together. In my circle we all bring stuff, the only hosting side in the venue (person's home). We are all too skint to do what people do on here and pay for everything. Part of the problem for buying gifts for dogs is the safety and suitability aspect. But in terms of starting new jobs etc we'd always have a night out and drinks would be bought for the person celebrating.

[quote Mmn654123]@emilyfrost

Goodness, your entire self worth really is anchored to your ability to attract a mate and breed, isn’t it? Do you really think that’s an achievement? Every animal in the kingdom can do that. Those of us who choose not to don’t have unfulfilling lives - we just think it’s important folk like you get called out when you’re being selfish and self centred.

Have you never achieved anything in your own right? Nothing you’re proud of?

Never mind. Maybe your children will achieve something.[/quote]

Thank you. Spot on.

It does amaze me how we spend more time celebrating baby showers than hard academic achievements like completing a MSC or winning an award.

do we? or is it just you...

You might have more friends who had babies and baby showers than friends winning awards.

Absolutely everybody I know who won awards, received honours, graduated.. had parties inviting people to celebrate and got gifts accordingly.

We had parties to say goodbye to people going on a gap year, parties to welcome them back. There's a big life outside of marriage and babies, who are celebrated too.

Some posters seem very bitter but I get the impression they have a very depressing life.

Have you never achieved anything in your own right? Nothing you’re proud of?

what do we get when we managed to do both? Have children and achieved things?