To be miffed at all the presents for being a wife and mother

[Creamcustards]

Inspired by the baby shower thread.

What is it that makes us ‘reward’ getting married and having children with money and gifts?! I mean, surely the joy of the marriage / the child is enough!?

Yes, I am single and childfree. Maybe a little bit bitter?!! When I get a pet or a new job or there some other happy event in my life I don’t get showered with gifts / money!

Grr.

Get with your own culture.

People get married, people have children. This continues the human race. And the marriage bit protects those who rear the human race.

Our culture and all cultures have gifts to incentivise these occasions.

You may choose to opt out but society continues.

I don't understand why people feel this would even things up - surely women who get married and have children also gets pets, new homes and new jobs and inevitably some people would buy more than they receive? Or is the idea that we don't get wedding or baby presents at all now?

I also agree that if you want a milestone to be treated as one you have to have a celebration, not just expect other people to spontaneously do it. The night I handed in my PhD thesis I had a drinks thing at the pub - everyone who came brought a card, and I got lots of flowers and some chocolates too. But I only invited local friends and I got some congratulatory texts but nothing more from those who I didn't invite to celebrate it. I think, in general, if you want to signal that you think this is a present-giving occasion you need to throw a party!

I also agree

Would think of it more as gift to celebrate/congratulate a big change. A big life event. No one is going to buy you a present for staying single because there isn't an event/day to celebrate with it. No one is going to buy you a present for not having a baby, but they will buy baby things for a close family member or friend having a baby, because there is a baby to buy for? Sorry OP but I think you're overthinking it

@DoingItMyself

This is a deep thing. The events you mention, OP, are important changes in life. Liminal phases. Moving from being a single person to being a married person, from (traditionally) a chaste unmarried woman to being a wife. Moving from being a wife to being a mother. Taking on all the commitment and risk involved in that. Bringing a new life into the world, with all its potential for sorrow and joy. We gather together, we show our support by offering gifts, because this is a time of great change and potentially great danger. Different cultures address these issues differently, but we do it with parties and gifts. It's primal.

But yes, we could celebrate other events and achievements, too.

But a lot of this is simply not true any more. Most people who get engaged/married have already set up home together and lived together for some time, and in many cases already had children too. So it really does not have the same significance as a young couple tying the knot and embarking on a new life together.

@Crystal90567 bloody hell, people who don’t get married/have kids/partake in the celebrations around this are somehow not part of society?

Also ‘get with your own culture’ - what’s wrong with challenging societal norms? Especially those that support the notion that those that don’t quite fit the mould are somehow less.

I didn't get any gifts for getting married. Nor for having kids - the babies got given stuff, I didn't.

But then again I'm an adult so I don't wank on about it.

'Simply not true any more' does not apply when you are dealing with human nature. The primal needs remain unchanged even when society moves on. For example, Western liberal society does not require marriage before sex, but the need to recognise a change in status from single woman to wife is still there.

@winifredwells

We asked for no gifts at our wedding

I absolutely hate those. You wouldn't turn up empty handed to a diner party or a bbq, so it's rather rude not to at least thank the host, let alone give a gif to celebrate.

You end up wasting so much time and end up sending flowers or something at a later date.

Wedding gift lists are a blessing. I am even happy contributing to a honeymoon or a new roof if you want to, save me time and effort!

We were invited around to a neighbour's Guy Fawkes Party, I said yes and the said we are asking for £10 from each family...on the night I couldn't see where to stick the tenner - no need, she chased me on it a few days later...that is what a donation of money at a wedding feels like to me - empty and cheap - I didn't want it and I didn't need it. We invited people to celebrate our marriage not to fund our honeymoon.

@SnowAllSpring

I didn't get any gifts for getting married. Nor for having kids - the babies got given stuff, I didn't.

But then again I'm an adult so I don't wank on about it.

Same

I got presents for getting a big promotion and getting a PhD too. Your friends and family don't only have to celebrate marriage and babies. In fact, other than wedding presents (which are just culturally customary), I don't really recall anyone buying me presents when my children were born. I think I might have gotten flowers. Most presents were for the babies. And someone dropped us off a cake. I was much more excited about all the celebration of my PhD than a cake for having babies!

@Ponoka7

"Why? No one forced you to reproduce"

Society and the world needs people. You might not value that now, as my childfree sister didn't. But she does now since she's retired and needs some care. All those WC/benefit top up people gave us the essential workers that we have relied on.

Oh I hate this argument.

I’m child free and (currently) exceptionally fit and healthy. I have worked continuously since I was 16 (so for 18 years) and plan to keep doing so. I look after myself, eat and exercise well and pay for my healthcare and dentistry privately. I don’t take anything from the state, but I certainly pay into it. I have paid off all student loans and have a very small mortgage which is nearly paid off, I save responsibly and have insurance and a healthy pension fund. DH is the same.

The taxes we pay fund the healthcare, education and upbringing of other people’s children. I also use quite a lot of my own money and resources to enhance the education that I provide to the pupils in my class.

When one has a child, they have no idea whether that baby will become a contributing member of society or not.

Should I ever need to take from the state, I will be more than content that I have put in my fair contributions into ‘the pot’.

I think it’s gone from etiquette of not turning up empty handed to a wedding and bringing a gift for the couple for their new home and life together to in most cases being OTT with cash requests and paying for honeymoons. I dislike the new trend as feels like an entry fee. I’ve also had requests for cash or gifts for second weddings which feels very wrong to me as they shouldn’t need anything for a home as they have already had a set of gifts once.

I like buying a new baby gift for a baby In the family or close friend as it celebrates new life. I opt out of anything to do with gender reveal, baby showers and the awful “push” presents etc that seem everywhere at the moment.

*It's traditional. People bought presents for weddings because it was helping a new couple out when they were about to move in together, that's why you bought practical gifts. The baby similar but usually it was giving things your baby didn't need anymore so they saved money and kept memories going.

But now its more a nice thing. People pay a fortune for their weddings and pay for their guests to sit down and eat with them, they cost a fortune compared to what they used to. My friend paid £15,000 for her wedding and I get she didn't have to and no one forced her, but with £70 a head I think it was only fair I got her a present that would thank her for the invite and help her out or make her smile.*

It can also cost quite a lot to attend a wedding, a gift plus a new outfit, overnight accommodation/travel, etc. Especially if people decide they want a “location” wedding abroad.

I buy friends/family gifts for significant events.

When they get engaged/married it is traditional to help the new couple to start up home.

When they have a baby it is traditional to help the new parents with what they need for a new baby.

I do my own thing and dont get sucked into the pay for my honeymoon/wedding, or baby shower nonsense.

@DoingItMyself

'Simply not true any more' does not apply when you are dealing with human nature. The primal needs remain unchanged even when society moves on. For example, Western liberal society does not require marriage before sex, but the need to recognise a change in status from single woman to wife is still there.

Someone in a long term cohabiting relationship and may even have children with them. Is not “single” in the sense I would understand it. Okay they’re not legally married but they’re not single.

Baby showers always look so grabby.

@Theglassmakerofmurano do you not buy gifts for close family and friends if they have a baby

@CounsellorTroi this.

I have been to many weddings that I have been delighted to attend.

I have also had to fork out money, time and effort attending events where I know I’ve been invited to make up the numbers. To then be asked to contribute to a holiday because they couple ‘have everything they need’ is irritating. You put on a party because you want to have a party. You also choose how much you spend putting on that party. DH and I eloped and then spent our money investing in our house and future together. I have a friend who had a £££ wedding, closely followed by two children who makes various comments about my lovely house and all my lovely things. I just chose to direct my money differently.

I give you a gift because I want to, not out of debt for being invited to your decadent party.

what’s wrong with challenging societal norms? Especially those that support the notion that those that don’t quite fit the mould are somehow less.

but I don't want to challenge social norms! I see nothing wrong with gifts when invited to a party - engagement, wedding, new job, graduation, housewarming, birthdays...

Nothing wrong with not turning empty handed to a diner party or a weekend invit

The OP is only being miffed because she can't be bothered to organise a party. People get presents when they get married or have a christening etc because they organise an event and invite friends and family.

[quote lovepickledlimes]@Theglassmakerofmurano do you not buy gifts for close family and friends if they have a baby[/quote]
There’s a big difference between buying an unasked for gift for a loved one because you want to, and having to buy a gift because you have been summoned to an event where you must give a gift.

I have also had to fork out money, time and effort attending events where I know I’ve been invited to make up the numbers. To then be asked to contribute to a holiday because they couple ‘have everything they need’ is irritating.

The incredibly obvious solution to this 'problem' is to just not go to the wedding if you feel that way about it?

@Ilovemaisie

If you were my friend and you got a new pet I would probably go a bit crazy in Pets at Home for you. Unless you got a snake because sorry....friendship over

My sisters chickens just started laying eggs so I celebrated by buying her this beautiful bag. What's not to love?!

There’s a big difference between buying an unasked for gift for a loved one because you want to, and having to buy a gift because you have been summoned to an event where you must give a gift.

you are not summoned, don't go if you have that attitude.

How rude to think you can turn up and enjoy a free party but begrudge spending a few pounds to thank the host and celebrate whatever they are celebrating.

Society and the world needs people. You might not value that now, as my childfree sister didn't. But she does now since she's retired and needs some care. All those WC/benefit top up people gave us the essential workers that we have relied on.

Nobody has kids for the good of society, having kids is an entirely selfish process.

@LemonMeringueThreePointOneFour

This thread has actually made me quite tearful. It can be extremely tough watching your friends get coupled up while you stay single and seeing them have kids while you remain childless (and infertile). And then all these things are celebrated multiple times.

It's shit being on the outside, and for someone else (another woman, no less) to come along and say, "Well you sound bitter!" is pretty fucking callous imo.

I agree, I’m a bit at all these “bitter” accusations doubtless from people who are married and have children. I’m married but couldn’t have children but seemed to spend the first 10-15 years of my marriage ttc while congratulating, contributing to and buying baby gifts for relatives friends and colleagues. You’d have to be superhuman right a saint not to feel a bit bitter in that situation.