Want to be married before baby is here

[ornge]

Me (25) and partner of 2 years (28) just found out we are pregnant. I have a coil, so very unexpected.

Bit of background as not to drip feed - moved in with my partner last year. I had to move house as flatmate was moving out and decided I would rent on my own. He really wanted me to move in with him (owns his own house). I did not at first but stayed with him in the week between moving out and my move in date. I then stayed on my own for 2 months but the last month especially, I don’t think I spent even 2 nights at my own flat so I gave notice and moved in with him.

He does not take any money for mortgage or bills even when I send it, he sends it back. He has a much better job than me but I never expected him to take on all bills etc. I am close to his parents now and I can tell he was very much raised in the way that the man pays for everything. Not sure if this is cultural as he is from Middle East and I only know his family but it does seem the norm for them.

Anyway, he supports me really well. I have paid for odd things when he is away on work but he always pays for shopping, eating out, all household bills etc so I have no doubt he would support our child BUT

I told him if we had a child I would want to be married. I do want to keep baby and he would too but he wants me to give up work and I think that is very risky if we are not married. I know he supports us but I don’t want to be left high and dry if anything happened.

He does not want to get married. He is put off by the idea of a big wedding and also thinks his parents would be upset if we did it in a registry office.

He seems to think I do not trust him to support us which has upset and it’s unreasonable for me to ask that we get married. I will keep baby no matter what but feeling upset and worried about this. I do not want to pressure him either as I love him dearly

PersipaciousGreen

"Having a baby is way more of a commitment than marriage so he's already "in too deep" with you."

I wish I had realised just how true this was before I got pregnant with my own children and I only did that after I had been married to my ex husband for 4 years already.

Hate to say it but as soon as you are pregnant that is basically the most vulnerable you can possibly be and not just for the time you are pregnant - the obligation to care for (and in many cases provide for) children lasts a LIFETIME and invariably rests on the mother not the father.

Sorry OP but I think you are being unfair putting that pressure on him and giving him the ultimatum.

If you'd been together for years, discussed marriage and he'd agreed and then got pregnant, I could understand, but wait us, you've been together a short time and mariage was never in the card.

Falling pregnant accidently doesn't change these facts. He owes to care for any future babies, but he doesn't owe you marriage.

It's a pity that you are willing to give up what seemed to have been good before just because he is refusing to be pressured into something he doesn't want and never said he wanted. Many couples have children together without being married. You have the choice to go back to work even if he suggests you are a SAHM.

You could save the money you would otherwise pay in rent towards a deposit for a place you could then rent out.

In time, he might change his mind, but as things are, I can understand him having possible little doubts that you are more j retested in the financial security he can offer you than in him as a person and being cautious accordingly.

I hope whatever decision you make, it's the one that you are happy with and is right for you.

dontdisturbmenow
The issue is that he's cherry picking what traditions matter and is all too happy to suggest that the OP gives up her financial independence to become dependent on him, and dismisses any meaningful changes that would financially protect her and acknowledge her contribution as being "just a piece of paper".
Men like this are very good at the "just a piece of paper" dismissal, but funnily enough for things that are an insignificant piece of paper, they sure make a big deal about not doing any of them.

@dontdisturbmenow

Sorry OP but I think you are being unfair putting that pressure on him and giving him the ultimatum.

If you'd been together for years, discussed marriage and he'd agreed and then got pregnant, I could understand, but wait us, you've been together a short time and mariage was never in the card.

Falling pregnant accidently doesn't change these facts. He owes to care for any future babies, but he doesn't owe you marriage.

It's a pity that you are willing to give up what seemed to have been good before just because he is refusing to be pressured into something he doesn't want and never said he wanted. Many couples have children together without being married. You have the choice to go back to work even if he suggests you are a SAHM.

You could save the money you would otherwise pay in rent towards a deposit for a place you could then rent out.

In time, he might change his mind, but as things are, I can understand him having possible little doubts that you are more j retested in the financial security he can offer you than in him as a person and being cautious accordingly.

I hope whatever decision you make, it's the one that you are happy with and is right for you.

are you DRUNK ?

don'tdisturb

"It's a pity that you are willing to give up what seemed to have been good before just because he is refusing to be pressured into something he doesn't want and never said he wanted. Many couples have children together without being married. You have the choice to go back to work even if he suggests you are a SAHM."

are you mad?
you literally have zero idea what it costs a woman to have a baby don't you?
and i do not mean in just financial terms, i mean the lifelong changes to her body, the lifelong changes to her emotions, the lifelong obligation to walk alongside a growing human being (physcially, emotionally, spiritually) in a way I would suggest very very few men ever have to do.
Not better than men father their children just very different and an enormous lifelong responsibility in a way it definitely is not for the man involved.

i disagree with your entire post.

Whatever you do do not give up work especially now you know what he’s really like. Funny how loads of these ‘traditional’ men don’t want to get married isn’t it?

Op you are absolutely doing the right thing
You are mature, brave with a lot of self awareness and it sounds like you have gained all this in a very short space of time. That’s really impressive. Take what you have learned and go on to have a brilliant future. Wishing you well

Ah now ladies, these tradional men ARE very tradional...in so much as they keep THEIR options open, and COMPLETE financial control of all the money🙄

Worst case scenario for them when they walk away from the woman who had their child, that they didn't marry, that isn't on the deeds of the family home, and gave up her job to skivvy for him and their children, is some pittance of CM which wouldn't keep a cat not to mind a child.

So any woman who goes ahead and has a child in these circumstances had better watch out as any minute of any day they can have THEIR life and the lives of their child turned upside down and there is nothing they can do about it.

I hope the OP thinks good and hard about whether she wants to raise this mans child because the sacrifice will be huge for HER, and HER alone.

Thank goodness OP already moved out and ended the relationship.

Good job OP. I read your argument against his little piece of paper comment and cheered. Many important documents are little pieces of paper but men don't have trouble securing them. No woman should play wife (cooking, cleaning, childcare, gardening) to a man who refuses to be her husband. By doing so, you'd give up your power and end up relying on his good graces. We've all seen threads on how that plays out years later.

I actually showed my husband your thread and he said seemed like you were the one making all the commitments and sacrifices. Your DP wants everything on his terms. It's your choice to keep the baby or not but I personally wouldn't tie myself for life to any man who wasn't already my husband. If you keep the pregnancy, give baby your surname. Proud of you OP. You are miles and years ahead of so many sleepwalking women.

On a different note. You say you have a coil. Coil pregnancies are high risk with a miscarriage rate of 40-50 per cent. The advice seems to be to get it removed at an early stage if you want the best chance of the pregnancy lasting. I got pregnant with the coil in and I had a miscarriage at 16 weeks. It wasn't pleasant.

the "little piece of paper" can be true but I strongly feel that is not the case here.

actions speak louder than words.

it is perfectly possible to have the "little piece of paper" and still be absolutely royally f**ked over by your supposed "dear" H.

I think the piece of paper is a side show as the colours of this existed well before the piece of paper was raised. But it helped in as much as it brought the reality of the situation into sharp focus.

Op, I am so glad you asked the question on MN and are following through.

Whilst you are in the honeymoon stages (and I would count 2 years as still in that period) any promises he makes are worthless. What others have highlighted is just how vulnerable you feel when pregnant or with a newborn. No matter how healthy or hardworking you were, pregnancy and birth changes you..in a way that many women, myself included, felt completely unprepared for. As a result there is a power imbalance and many men enjoy and exploit that power.

Add in sleepness nights, breast feeding, lack of libido, unable to socialise or do house chores as before many men decide the grass is greener.

His risk of having a baby unmarried is capped to paying 10% of his salary for 18 years whilst yours is zero income, relying on benefits or high childcare costs whilst trying to juggle a career. It is hard, bloody hard slog being a single mum with a young baby. He will also remain in your life as well as any new partners he may have.

Motherhood is great but it isn't the easiest path, especially as a single mum,cas it will limit your life options.

i disagree with your entire post
There will always be women who sadly feel that they have to reliant on a man and the financial security that comes with it rather than looking at being self-reliant. It's almost as if they think of divorce at the sane time than marriage.

As said, OP has the option to say that she wants to remain in employment and he can pay half or more towards childcare.

Why becoming fully dependent on a man you've known for only 2 years? A baby doesn't mean the end of financial independence and however some women feel that a baby should entitle them to a proposal, it really doesn't, not when marriage was never on the card in the first place.

@dontdisturbmenow

i disagree with your entire post There will always be women who sadly feel that they have to reliant on a man and the financial security that comes with it rather than looking at being self-reliant. It's almost as if they think of divorce at the sane time than marriage.

As said, OP has the option to say that she wants to remain in employment and he can pay half or more towards childcare.

Why becoming fully dependent on a man you've known for only 2 years? A baby doesn't mean the end of financial independence and however some women feel that a baby should entitle them to a proposal, it really doesn't, not when marriage was never on the card in the first place.

OP left already

As said, OP has the option to say that she wants to remain in employment and he can pay half or more towards childcare

Without marriage he legally only has to pay circa 10% of his earmings which on a average or even well paid job won't cover childcare. It's why women suffer so much after they have children as the sums don't add up. The men can sail off with 90% of salary. Hardly any men pay more than the legal limit and often try to find ways to reduce the minimum amount by pension contributions.

"some women feel that a baby should entitle them to a proposal, it really doesn't, not when marriage was never on the card in the first place"

at NO point did i suggest that a baby "entitles" a woman to a proposal.

Indeed if the word entitled comes into it then very clearly the marriage would not be worth the "piece of paper" it was written on and if entitled was the justification I would be horrified to be pregnant in the first place.

But you ignore the point that pregnancy always costs the woman way more than it costs the man and I believe that even if some divorce settlement sets the mother up financially.

£ does not make up for the absence of a committed father to the child so the mother will be paying the price for the marriage she brokered by her pregnant entitlement for so long as the child is alive.

I dont know who you are to imagine that every woman who gets pregnant has 100% equal opportunities at the point of conception and at all times thereafter to earn exactly the same as the man who got her pregnant in the first place (the self reliance you speak of) but either you are being naieve or you are being disingenous.

Genuine question- and I don't mean to be accusing of anybody- but why is 'don't put him on the birth certificate' a reasonable response? I actually find it sad that fathers are denied their parental rights because of a disagreement.

Your partner isn't pregnant.

ginoclock

ask yourself this.

should parental rights be secured forever more for the father irrespective of what comes after at the point of coitus?

the mother has pregnancy, birth and child raising to adulthood as a given.

The father barely needs to be there literally a minute or two after conception.

@ginoclocksomewhere I think it’s disingenuous to say that a father is being denied parental rights because of a disagreement. Being on the birth certificate gives a man a lot of control over both the child and their mother. It can have significant impacts upon that child’s life for example refusing to allow the mum to move closer to their support network. But it doesn’t impose any additional obligations on the man. It doesn’t make him behave like a father. So a man can stop the mother of his child moving but at the same time refuse to see the child or provide any additional support. How is that in the best interests of the child?
So where you have a man who has made it clear that he is happy to leave the mother of his child on a vulnerable position by not marrying her and making sure that she has no claim on his house and so making it clear he is not interested in forming a family unit, why give him that kind of power??? He has made it clear he only cares about himself.

@KirstenBlest

Your partner isn't pregnant.

OP I totally agree with this.

Rainbow

"It can have significant impacts upon that child’s life for example refusing to allow the mum to move closer to their support network. But it doesn’t impose any additional obligations on the man. It doesn’t make him behave like a father. So a man can stop the mother of his child moving but at the same time refuse to see the child or provide any additional support. How is that in the best interests of the child?"

I can attest to this being absolutely true.
Under English Law the father can once the child is in primary school object to the child moving school allegedly because it is "in the best interests of the child to stay at the school it attends" whilst all at the same time paying little or no child maintenance and not infact spending any time or seeing the child at all......

English law in 2021 dictates that a father with parental responsibilty can do this ..........................
Please bear this in mind when you agree to the father going on the birth certificate.

OP, I think you are being sensible and are making the right decisions for your future. Stay strong.

Well done, OP. You're being impressively strong.