To think calling in sick for no sleep is a good enough reason?

[Rachelinaa]

I work in an office that's been open through most of lockdown due to admin we do being essential.
Recently one of my workmates has been calling in sick a lot because he hasn't been sleeping well as he's got a baby at home that won't sleep. I was shocked to hear other people at work saying they thought it was a ridiculous reason not to come to work and we've all had to come to work tired. But I thought they'd be able to see the difference between being tired and not sleeping at all. His baby has colic and the mum also works.
I've called in sick before for being too tired when my baby was a newborn and didn't sleep. I wondered what everyone else's thoughts on this was? I personally don't want someone driving to work if they're too tired to focus and I can't think that the boss would want someone in more likely to make mistakes.

Proudboomer that's awful! Did they take into account the reasons for absence? Many people, like me, have chronic health conditions that mean they are too unwell to work sometimes, but are definitely not piss takers. If I were to be selected to be made redundant for that reason alone I would raise a grievance under disability discrimination laws.

We have to tell our manager, god knows why. I think it's a bit shocking that everybody in the office knows the reason, unless the sickee put on a WhatsApp group or similar and so shared it themselves

I'm also shocked, but not surprised, ImAllrightThanx

Agree that the sickee should not (if they did) give the reasons for being away. Not even sure if the manager is entitled to know. I work in a school and it's between me and my sick leave why I'm away. My school is ta pains to say to staff never to disclose why they are not at work, just to say they won't one in.

To be fair there is a limit on paid sick leave, but the reasons for it are never the concern of the employer. Or anyone else. I'm in Victoria.

[quote Rachelinaa]@BluebellsGreenbells we do get paid for sick days and if our kids are sick, the company is good with that. But the man in question has never really had much time off before, he's very dedicated to his job so I don't get how they can think it's an excuse instead of a decent reason.[/quote]
And I bet if it was unpaid he'd not be taking the days off but somehow managing!

No sleep is different from broken sleep. Mine didn't sleep through the night until age 3, as a lone parent I had no choice but to get up and go into work every day like millions of mothers the world over.
I have called in sick after being up all night vomiting with a migraine and no sleep.
Now menopausal and suffering insomnia, still have to get up and go into work every day. Amazing how it only seems to be women who can cope with lack of sleep or those who don't get paid if they don't turn up.

So I suffer from chronic pain and sometimes it's so bad that I can go a whole night without sleeping... the next morning I'm usually so tired and mentally/emotionally drained from being in pain and getting no sleep that I've called in sick and spent the day in bed. I think it would be dangerous for me to drive to work in that state. I now WFH and I think I've had one day where I've called in sick in the past year for this reason and it's because I was so tired I literally couldn't function. Fortunately my Manager is aware of my issues and is supportive if I need time off for lack of sleep due to chronic pain.

So YNBU but I think it depends on the reason (like I would be side eyeing someone who didn't get any sleep and took a sick day because they were out partying)

Bugger the typos. A long day doing a tax return.

@lljkk

For an 'odd occasion' then who cares... but the baby will be a baby for a long time. This isn't sustainable so not acceptable except like 1-2 days/year.

DD called in sick due to no sleep due to partying all night. No on.

Yes, that's a decent point. Reading through the posts, clearly there are a lot of differing opinions and there is probably no stock answer to deal with the issue of sickness.

I have worked with people who suck it up and people who readily call in sick. I don't think that people necessarily 'soldier on' out of some desire to prove anything to colleagues but perhaps are aware of the pressure that absence might put on them. Again, it depends on the situation - if they have something contagious then coming into work is counter productive but if it is a lack of sleep then I would say that annual leave wouldn't be appropriate but in the case of ongoing issues then neither annual leave nor calling in sick is a sustainable situation.

I do agree with those who say that Bradford Factor isn't ideal. I can see that it does reduce temptation to call in sick on a Monday after a heavy weekend but equally some people can get caught up in it who have genuinely fallen sick on a particular day on a number of occasions.

I'm quite surprised by the person that suggested that in Australia, people are almost expected to take their sick allocation (assuming I didn't misread it). If that is the case then why not just allocate it as extra annual leave?

I'm in the UK, our boss is absolutely fine with it and seems to get more annoyed if you come in yawning at your desk and bringing the mood down rather than staying home and catching up on sleep so you can be your best again the next day. The man in question also tells us all this is the reason he takes time off and he brings someone into work who he texts to let them know he won't be in and why, that's why we all know and I agree it shouldn't be gossiped about but I work in an office, gossip is all people do and you're lucky to be able to glance out of the window without 5 people talking about it.
Why has this turned into a competition of which mum had it harder and still went into work? Good for you all but everyone copes different and if you judge everyone else by your standards of what you can get through then I'm glad we have laws in the country that a bosses personal opinion doesn't dictate whether someone can be penalised or not for these things.
His wife works for the NHS and went back to work when baby was very young, she also takes sick days. They both work similar shifts (he's 9 to 5 and she's 8 to 6 both Monday to Friday) so they're probably going to struggle taking shifts unless they never want to see each other. Most of the time they catch up on sleep on a weekend but by Wednesday some weeks their baby has had them up every night again.
I'm glad they ring in sick and look after themselves when they need to. Yes we all know this part passes and we all know it's hard and we all know it's part of the parcel but it doesn't mean someone should force themselves to work when they're run down and end up hurting themselves mentally as well as physically.
People saying he's lazy or using it as an excuse when it's not one lack compassion and understanding. If you felt you could go in when you were tired then you perhaps were not as tired as him and his wife. He rarely took sick days before and was the trooper who would come in when he was too poorly to be there before.

Too many parents end up dragging themselves to work when they shouldn't and hurt their personal lives. Your baby needs you on top form as well as your boss. I'm glad we're getting to a point where people are willing to admit they struggle and need time off, maybe parents in future will have more compassion.

I went back to work when my baby was 4 months and they were a dreadful sleeper with bad colic-I went to work some days on very little sleep-I was so tired, my face hurt. I would imagine the parents of the class of children I taught wouldn’t have been very sympathetic had I not come to work because I was tired though. This went on for a good year-some days worse than others.

I worked with a lad as a student who was always tired-would often phone in to the office we worked in saying he was ill when he was just up all hours playing computer games. He was very tired and it impacted on his ability to do the job-but it was totally his own fault. If employers said that extreme tiredness was ok to take the day off for-you’d have to be quite specific about what counted!

Erm, you know a lot about the life of this 'colleague' - like his wife's exact working hours - and you also worked with a newborn and took time off sick - I'm going to take a wild guess that the wife is you and the man is your DH?

And:

They both work similar shifts (he's 9 to 5 and she's 8 to 6 both Monday to Friday) so they're probably going to struggle taking shifts unless they never want to see each other.

Yes, you do never see each other if you take sleep shifts - even if only one of you works that's the case - so it's shit, but it's what people do to get through and it's temporary.

I don't think that people necessarily 'soldier on' out of some desire to prove anything to colleagues but perhaps are aware of the pressure that absence might put on them

^^ This. People saying he should take as much sick leave as he feels necessary clearly haven't had to deal with the fallout when you work with a shirker who takes a day off sick at the drop of a hat, having to do their work for them as well as your own. Soul destroying and you lose sympathy fast when you're repeatedly in that position.

While it doesn't seem like this man is a shirker, there's a lot he should be doing before calling in sick. Using his annual leave, not everyone needs to book leave months in advance and even if he normally does, if he explains the situation, his employer will probably be flexible.

Can he work from home so he can be flexible about when he works and doesn't need to drive?

Are both parents sharing the overnight load and catching up on sleep where possible, using earplugs if necessary. The parent who is awake could take the baby out for a couple of hours.

If I was his employer, I'd expect all that to be done before taking sick leave due to tiredness.

Realistically, as well, if they're both back at work getting full pay but taking regular paid sick days because of the baby that's likely to rankle with people who took the considerable financial hit of maternity/shared parental leave - I think a lot more people would go back a lot earlier if you could just take paid days off if the reality of working with a little baby got to be too much!

They still have 8pm to 6am, possibly longer, to sleep with those hours, so 10 hours between them, catch up on weekends. With two parents it should be doable.

In some jobs you have to advise management if you are too tired to focus. I’ve held two such positions.

It was your responsibility to ensure you got sufficient rest and it was not a reason that was used by many to call off. But it was used and I’m glad that they said that they weren’t up for their job that day.

Sorry but phoning in sick, because you have been kept awake by a baby is just not on, sounds harsh I know, but how long is the company expected to put up with it? It’s the impact this has on colleagues who have to pick up his work, or work who have to wait until he is back to get something done

Most work places have some form of sickness policy, ie after x number if days off over x number of months triggers the start of the firms, sickness procedures, and certainly where I work it’s well followed a s he could end up on warnings and eventually lose his job

Look at all the other posts on here about mums complaining the dads go and sleep in another room and they are left dealing with babies crying at night, no sleep etc because he has to sleep to be able to works to keep the money coming in

If the baby has colic surely they will also be crying during the day as well? So how long will he be off for because he won’t be able to catch up with sleep during the day either?

No it's not a reason to be off sick! Plenty people go to work with very little sleep. I'm a nurse, used to work nights and just couldn't sleep in the day. Would often go back to work the next night having 3-4 hours of broken sleep in the day.
Babies and many small children wake up in the night, you just have to suck it up and get on with it. Dd 2 didn't sleep through until she was 3, many a time I have gone to work just after a few hours sleep. Never had a sick day.

@somuchlaundrytowash

Yabu. The only time I've had extended time off ill was due to severe mh issues after baby was born ( psychiatrist sign off, not just the gp) I think taking time off just because your baby cries a lot is a bit and dramatic My lo cried a lot but I just got on with it dragged up on psychiatrist prescribed medication at the time too.

Yeah and look where 'just getting on with it' left you!😂 well done for driving yourself to insanity, this guy obviously doesn't want to be there and has no obligation to do so either just because you've been through shit. You couldn't have given a better example as to why he's right to give himself a break every once in while

I think for the occasional really bad night it’s ok, but to be doing it often no it’s not ok.

It's been obvious from your first post that you're the wife. Your last post confirms it. You and your husband need to get your act together.

this guy obviously doesn't want to be there and has no obligation to do so either

He sort of does have an obligation to be there. That's what a job is.

@SnowAllSpring

this guy obviously doesn't want to be there and has no obligation to do so either

He sort of does have an obligation to be there. That's what a job is.

Huh? To be at the point of a mental health breakdown like that poster? I'm not talking about his obligation to be at work

I'm going to take a wild guess that the wife is you and the man is your DH?

My thoughts too, Hardback

It really is pretty unusual in the UK for both parents to be back at work with a baby young enough to be up all hours with ‘colic’ and not to have put into place a sleep system that enables them both to work.

It’s not that taking time off for lack of sleep is wrong; sleep is vital.

It’s whether steps are being taken to mitigate the effect on the employer and the employee for a predictable side effect of having a baby!

@OverTheRubicon, it's my choice to take leave not my employers, I'm still entitled to sick leave. I only have a few more years to work and I'd find it hard to get another job so I'm willing to sacrifice leave to stay where I am. I'm afraid that with the impact of Covid and the poor economy people are going to have to face the fact that companies can pick and choose staff now.

It’s not the problem for your colleagues that you can’t sleep because of your baby. They woos almost always pick up the slack. Your choices, your responsibility.