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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think calling in sick for no sleep is a good enough reason?

518 replies

Rachelinaa · 11/04/2021 03:16

I work in an office that's been open through most of lockdown due to admin we do being essential.
Recently one of my workmates has been calling in sick a lot because he hasn't been sleeping well as he's got a baby at home that won't sleep. I was shocked to hear other people at work saying they thought it was a ridiculous reason not to come to work and we've all had to come to work tired. But I thought they'd be able to see the difference between being tired and not sleeping at all. His baby has colic and the mum also works.
I've called in sick before for being too tired when my baby was a newborn and didn't sleep. I wondered what everyone else's thoughts on this was? I personally don't want someone driving to work if they're too tired to focus and I can't think that the boss would want someone in more likely to make mistakes.

OP posts:
TeacupDrama · 12/04/2021 20:37

I was shocked when I was told at a professional CPR emergency course that 10 times more road deaths are caused by tired drivers than drunk drivers and it is even higher for just accidents
There are many people every day driving to work that are actually unfit to drive because they are so tired they might either miss something untoward or react too slowly,
whether you are unfit to drive because of something actually illegal like too much alcohol or drugs or whether it is legal medication or sleep deprivation, driving when you are unfit to drive is reckless whether you are driving to work, doing the school run or whatever.It will never comfort the family of someone killed to know the driver was tired not drunk
Tired NHS staff can make mistakes this is why they stopped doctors being on call from Friday night to Monday morning as if busy they were barely functioning by Sunday never mind making good clinical decisions
There is a bit tired and yes that can be pushed through but then there is so tired you are likely to fall asleep standing up or driving your vision goes blurry you can hardly stand or function tired and no-one that tired should be driving or working etc

Wearywithteens · 12/04/2021 20:38

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

JudgeJ · 12/04/2021 20:40

@AbsentmindedWoman

It’s not that in the UK you can’t have more than 3 days of sickness - many companies use something called the Bradford Factor to look at patterns of time off. Basically if someone takes lots of single days off - maybe in a pattern, like often Fridays or whatever- that can be more symptomatic of problematic absenteeism (‘swinging the lead’, as my late FIL would say) than an employee taking a 3-5 days off in a row once or twice a year.

The Bradford scale is pretty shit when you have a fluctuating condition, when your fitness for work can change by the day.

We used to call the Friday/Monday absentees the Caravaners.
Rachel1874 · 12/04/2021 20:44

Firstly nobody should even know the reason he is off!! That's is breach of confidentiality and if he finds out whoever he has told manager wise could be in ALOT of trouble!!
Secondly yes everyone has went to work a bit tired but there is a big difference between a little bit tired because you were up too late and not being able to function properly from lack of sleep. And nobody will know which category he falls into except him, and they should all really be minding their own business because next time the ay off sick who will be the hot topic then?

VegCheeseandCrackers · 12/04/2021 20:44

He's got a lot on his plate so I get it. Some of us cope ok with little sleep where some of us are in bits.
And you're totally right in that he shouldn't risk driving if he can't function due to lack of sleep. I think the people in your work saying it's ridiculous are being pretty unfair.

Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme · 12/04/2021 20:44

@HairyChair funny you should say that...you just reminded me a very tired junior Doctor once suggested I take a medication that could’ve killed me if I took it within a week of the injection he’d just given me. This is separate to the other incident I mentioned but yeah...doctors are used to being tired and overworked/on their knees so therefore it’s fine to go see a tired doctor rather than have the appointment rearranged Confused

I was once on a stress management course and the reason many of the doctors gave for not using the loo, getting a drink if is because they’d have to walk through the waiting room and wouldn’t want patients to see that if the appointments had been delayed...apparently they’re supposed to be super human and so altruistic they shouldn’t make sure their own basic physical needs are met!

Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme · 12/04/2021 20:48

@Alsohuman CONGRATULATIONS! Please tell us what you did with all those brownie points you earned by being a martyr?

Alsohuman · 12/04/2021 20:50

[quote Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme]@Alsohuman CONGRATULATIONS! Please tell us what you did with all those brownie points you earned by being a martyr?[/quote]
I wasn’t a martyr. I was someone who needed to pay the mortgage.

GreyhoundG1rl · 12/04/2021 20:50

Martyr, my arse.

SionnachGlic · 12/04/2021 20:51

I wouldn't have a problem with it as an employer if it was rare event & he was otherwise a dedicated employee & conscientous about his work. If it became a regular event I'd prefer he asked for some flexibility around hours & fit in his work hours around that. If it impacted on other members of a team getting work completed I'd have more of an issue with it. I remember the baby days & being exhausted but having to drag myself in, my work is client based & time sensitive so unexpected short notice cancellations could lose you clients who may have already arrived or are en route for early appointments. It doesn't endear to colleagues either if they have to cover unfamiliar client meetings as well as their own work due to absenteeism . Certainly not because of tiredness because let's face it, many colleagues have had small babies at some point themselves & have experienced this tiredness & most just struggle on through it. If you were sick, lots of employers require that you provide a sick cert to get paid & if you were spotted out anywhere other than GP or Pharmacy, then you'd be potentially looking at disiplinary. Also some contracts have a limit on the total amount of sick days allowed per annum before you will no longer be paid & have to claim entitlements...ours certainly do. My GP wouldn't give me a sick cert because I was tired unless it was a symptom of some illness. On the other hand, if you are dosed with germs/infection...it is preferable the whole staff & clients are not exposed. So..a once off for tiredness is ok & catch up on sleep that day...more than that then not ok...an employer is paying for you to work, not to sleep on their dime.

ElderMillennial · 12/04/2021 20:59

Sleep is important but if he is the one working while his partner has time off then surely they need to find a way for him to sleep so he can work.

If this were a valid excuse to be off work surely parents of babies and small children could be off all the time.

Having said that I took time off recently as I had really had back ache for a week (I am pregnant) and it was keeping me up. By day four I was so tired because I hadn't slept for 3/4 nights so I took the day off, saying I've had bad back ache for days and hadn't slept. That was the first day of sick I've had in years though so maybe if it was one day and the person is usually in then you might allow it but not regularly.

withmycoffee · 12/04/2021 21:00

I guess it depends on the job. Driving a vehicle, performing operations/medical procedures, air traffic controller....lots of jobs would be potentially catastrophic if done having had no sleep

MaryAnningsChisel · 12/04/2021 21:01

I don't think the 'I did it so others should have to' is a good approach really. As a society, we should recognise that having children- and small babies- does a number on you, and work should be flexible enough to accommodate that. Let's face it, not all workplaces let you use flexi or adjust your working pattern. If it's a one or two-off, I'd prefer to show empathy to a good employee who wouldn't get a lot done that day anyway. Or who might have a longer period off actually sick if they don't get a rest.

It's also not always as easy as one sleeping while the other one is up with the baby. Unless you have a massive house you will hear them and be awake, and we lived in a terrace where screaming would have woken 2 sets of neighbours as well.

0gfhty · 12/04/2021 21:28

I think they will need to find a way for the dad to sleep so he can drive to work safely. Ear plugs/separate rooms/sleep shifts - it's brutal but that is what parenting a young child is like. Babies and children wake during the night constantly and a baby especially every few hours or not at all for months on end! Unfortunately you have to find a way for the working parent to sleep in order to bring home the dough otherwise he won't be able to do his job. It's worse when both parents go back to work and you have a night waker. Still a few days here and there is ok and depends on the job

GreyhoundG1rl · 12/04/2021 21:29

Of course they will, just like millions of parents before them.

Cameleongirl · 12/04/2021 21:35

@MaryAnningsChisel I completely agree with you that we need to recognise that having a baby is exhausting, but it's the type of leave that he's taking that's the issue here, isn't it? Why isn't her colleague taking the parental leave that they're entitled to?

The OP stated that the baby was "newborn" so I've assumed a few weeks old, plus they're colicky. She also said that he's been calling in sick alot" so it's not the odd day. Parental leave seems like the obvious answer - that's what it's there for.

CaffeineAndCrochet · 12/04/2021 22:06

I'm in two minds. I don't have an issue with the occasional sick day. I've done it myself twice - the first was before I had DD. I had a night of insomnia where I couldn't sleep at all. It was the first and only time it's happened and I phoned in sick to work and was honest with my manager over why. The second time, I'd been up for most of the night with DD and I slept through my alarm the next morning. I was living with my parents at the time, and when my mother tried and failed to wake me, she chose to let me sleep. I arrived into work at about lunchtime and my manager told me my mother was absolutely right.

There has to be a balance between what you give to your job and how you look after yourself. Nobody should make themself ill by going to work when they're not fit to. But at the same time, if it's becoming an ongoing and persistent issue, there is an onus on you to find a solution.

knitonedropone · 12/04/2021 22:16

knitonedropone
As a one off in certain circumstances it is OK but not because you have a baby. I did it once after I had been awake for 48 hours and was in no fit state to drive anywhere. I had been at the hospital with an elderly relative.

@Dontcallmewifey
Why on earth does sleep deprivation not count if it is caused by a baby? But does count for your reason? You are not special you know!

If you have a baby who doesn't sleep then it can be every night and not a one off, are you going to call in sick every day then ? 48 hours with zero sleep is different to broken sleep at night, I would have been dangerous to myself and others driving to work and no use when there because of the nature of my job.

YoBeaches · 12/04/2021 22:17

A young mum worked for me for a while and one morning she came in looking absolutely shattered, she'd been up since 2am with her toddler several nights in a row that wouldn't sleep whom was now happily asleep at day care. I asked why on earth had she come in, go home and rest! She was so dedicated and didn't want to look bad she started crying.

This was a Thursday and I told her to go home the Monday. Burning out does nothing for no-one least of all me if she quits/goes long term sick etc.

We are far too harsh in the Uk. Life happens, treat good people well and they are worth their weight in gold.

YoBeaches · 12/04/2021 22:19

The issue is that we make it have to be a 'sick' day so you have to be 'too sick' to work.

It's a ridiculous and outdated way to manage employees and support their well-being.

knitonedropone · 12/04/2021 22:19

@WouldBeGood

Being tired is not an illness.
It depends on the cause, it can be caused by illness.
WouldBeGood · 12/04/2021 22:20

@knitonedropone Illness can cause tiredness.

Tiredness is not an illness.

Simple.

knitonedropone · 12/04/2021 22:23

[quote WouldBeGood]@knitonedropone Illness can cause tiredness.

Tiredness is not an illness.

Simple.[/quote]
Tell that to people with conditions like ME and some asthmatics who are tired because their breathing is poor for months at a time, mine is terrible during hay fever season and I get exhausted, anti histamines make it even worse, heart conditions make made my late mother very tired and she couldn't drive as a result.

Cameleongirl · 12/04/2021 22:24

Surely chronic insomnia’s an illness?

WouldBeGood · 12/04/2021 22:27

Exactly as I said. Illnesses can cause tiredness. You’ve just described that.

Tiredness is not an illness.