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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think calling in sick for no sleep is a good enough reason?

518 replies

Rachelinaa · 11/04/2021 03:16

I work in an office that's been open through most of lockdown due to admin we do being essential.
Recently one of my workmates has been calling in sick a lot because he hasn't been sleeping well as he's got a baby at home that won't sleep. I was shocked to hear other people at work saying they thought it was a ridiculous reason not to come to work and we've all had to come to work tired. But I thought they'd be able to see the difference between being tired and not sleeping at all. His baby has colic and the mum also works.
I've called in sick before for being too tired when my baby was a newborn and didn't sleep. I wondered what everyone else's thoughts on this was? I personally don't want someone driving to work if they're too tired to focus and I can't think that the boss would want someone in more likely to make mistakes.

OP posts:
Lemonandlime123 · 12/04/2021 19:51

You really don't know the full circumstances here and shouldn't be discussing it with colleagues anyway?

Sleep is essential. When I returned to work after DD1 there were several nights where I had zero sleep, literally nothing. I have a 50 minute commute eachway on a motorway and one morning I burst into tears as soon as I arrived at work as I was so completely exhausted. My line manager sent me home immediately and told me I shouldn't come to work in future in such circumstances. I am so grateful for that. I would go above and beyond for my colleagues if they were struggling and it is nice to know they would do the same. People should be kinder!

MaryAnningsChisel · 12/04/2021 19:51

(And yes, we did all of the sleep training stuff, none of it worked).

GreyhoundG1rl · 12/04/2021 19:54

[quote wildchild554]@GreyhoundG1rl yep thats why he's on the sick, till the doctors can figure out a way to help him he has no chance of working.[/quote]
What does "on the sick" mean? His employers are forced to pay him although he's incapable of working? Confused

HairyChair · 12/04/2021 19:55

[quote Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme]@LynnShelley “And would you want a dr to call in sick because of no sleep so you miss your appointment or your surgery (yes - it wouldn't be great if he was tired, but doctors often work on little sleep...)” As someone who has been misdiagnosed by a sleep deprived doctor then I would definitely take a rearranged appointment/seeing a different one over sticking to the original plan for the sake of getting the appointment done. You’re not attending a doctors appointment to be physically in the presence of a doctor, you’re there to have a consultation with an expert who I’d much prefer to be able to think straight and be thorough. There are some jobs you can turn up and coast through the day but it worries me that you think Doctor is one of those.[/quote]
Talk to a junior doctor about this - the Government didn't agree!

goose1964 · 12/04/2021 19:55

I worked when DS1 was a baby, he didn't sleep through until he was 10 months old. I ended up making an error that could have had legal implications.

Brindisi32 · 12/04/2021 19:58

This reply has been deleted

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wildchild554 · 12/04/2021 19:58

@GreyhoundG1rl he's signed off because he is unfit for work especially considering he's a driver for a company so would be dangerous.

HairyChair · 12/04/2021 19:58

@goose1964

I worked when DS1 was a baby, he didn't sleep through until he was 10 months old. I ended up making an error that could have had legal implications.
Why not take leave?
GreyhoundG1rl · 12/04/2021 19:59

[quote wildchild554]@GreyhoundG1rl he's signed off because he is unfit for work especially considering he's a driver for a company so would be dangerous.[/quote]
You're missing my point. How long should an employer be forced to employ someone who's incapable of actually working?

Suzi888 · 12/04/2021 20:02

Hmm Surely this is a joke.....

SnoopyOnALude · 12/04/2021 20:04

@Embracingthechaos

The UK is ridiculous about sickness in the work place. It's like it's a competition to see who can run themselves the most ragged, and the winner is admired as being so dedicated. It's unhealthy and sad.

He is an adult and he decides for himself whether or not he is fit for work that day. It's pathetic to sit around gossiping about the validity of his reason. If he is off sick enough that the company policy dictates some kind of intervention then that is between him and his line manager.

I'm in Australia and over here when you call in sick you don't give the details of your illness. Your manager is not allowed to ask. Most companies offer a certain amount of sick days that you are expected to use. It's a brilliant system.

That is a TERRIBLE system, wide open to abuse.
wildchild554 · 12/04/2021 20:04

@GreyhoundG1rl they aren't it's their choice but hes a good worker and not had more than a few days off work, he's been there 15 years so i think they just want to keep his job open for him as long as they can. The point I was trying to make was it is classed as an illness if doctors sign people off sick for it.

Casiloco · 12/04/2021 20:07

Flowers to all the insomniacs out there - it can be real torture!

As a (partial) insomniac - 3/4 nights a week I have trouble sleeping till about 2am and then wake at 5am and pretty much never get back to sleep - I'm a bit MEH about taking time off every time it happens - I just don't ... ever. But maybe once in a while it would be sensible if I did.

As a reason for missing work it beats "sunburn" which someone in the office used as an excuse last summer. As a man in his late 30s, I found this a bit pathetic.

Bebethany · 12/04/2021 20:10

Well said Snozpoz

Bebethany · 12/04/2021 20:12

Serving military personal are put on a charge for getting sunburnt as its self inflicted and shows lack of consideration for your colleagues.

Shergill15 · 12/04/2021 20:12

I suppose it depends on the job - if its a driving job or he's operating machinery - something where he could put himself or others in danger if his functioning was impaired through lack of sleep then it might be ok on the odd occasion. If it was happening regularly though I think in most places he'd be in attendance management processes pretty quickly.

If it's an office type role - not reasonable to call in sick for a lack of sleep. Strong coffee and suck it up like the rest of us do I'm afraid!

josbd · 12/04/2021 20:21

Mothers who get no sleep because they have babies do not get such consideration, do they?

I think there must be a great number of parents who get little sleep because they have babies, or kids who give them sleepless nights. I am afraid it is part of being a parent.

ExhaustedFlamingo · 12/04/2021 20:25

I’m in two minds about this.

On one hand, the culture in this country about sick leave is really unhealthy. In most places, unless you’re at death’s door you’re expected to turn up. Even in companies who don’t pay sick leave, there’s been disapproval for anyone who dares to take a day off. I don’t think it’s healthy and attitudes could do with changing.

On the flip side, although I’ve suffered sleep deprivation and know how desperately agonising it really is, repeated sick leave isn’t really acceptable. Take it as annual leave, or flex time (if you have that) but if it’s a repeated issue you need to figure out a solution. Having babies is a lifestyle choice, not an illness, and it’s not fair for your employer/colleagues to bear the brunt of your decisions. It’s no different than ringing in for a hangover - both are due to personal decisions you made in your life which impact work.

I had premature twins and was a single mum (who worked). I’m not unsympathetic at all to lack of sleep, I know first-hand how awful it is. My babies were on a two-hour feeding cycle due to their size and one had serious reflux. In the early days I had 20 minutes between finishing one set of feeds before I was due to start again. Breastfeeding so no help. Also no partner at the time. Looking back, I don’t know how the hell I did it. So I really do sympathise with how hard it is. But I think there has to be a degree of responsibility for your life choices. Arrange to use your annual leave at short notice, take extended paternity/maternity leave, reduce your hours/days worked, ask for flexible working, ask to wfh (to reduce travelling time and reduce risk of driving etc), alternate with partner so you take turns on alternate nights (you should be able to cope with one night of broken sleep), nap in the evening when you get home. Life with a little baby is hard but it gets better - you can’t expect others to pick up the slack.

1Morewineplease · 12/04/2021 20:27

No, it's not a valid reason. It's not an illness it's a lifestyle choice that just isn't working at the moment. Maybe he needs to take some unpaid leave.
Where will it end? "Oh, I've just had a new puppy and it howls every night... I'm so tired"
"My wife snores badly and I can't sleep... I can't possibly work as I'm sooo tired."

Hmmm...

Miseryl · 12/04/2021 20:28

I'm still waiting for mine to sleep through - she's five! 😂 But no never taken sick leave because she's a crap sleeper.

Itmustbeheresomewhere · 12/04/2021 20:29

I don't think YABU. My first did not sleep, day or night for more than an hour, if that and was bf for over 2 years. DP worked away so I was often alone for long stretches.

I went back to work full time after mat leave because I couldn't afford not to, sometimes working till 11pm having been up all night with no sleep at all.

But over time the sleep deprivation really ate away at me.

I developed such severe anxiety that I would be constantly thinking bad things were just about to happen. On my days off I wouldn't leave the house for fear of dying, sounds crazy, because it was.

I was so determined not to be late or have a sick day and I would leave 2 hours before I got to work, for a 30 minute commute, just incase I had to get off the bus to have a panic attack and sort myself out, which happened often and became a pattern.

No one at work knew this but they knew I was tired and my performance was awful.

Finally my manager recognised what was going on, his wife was off long term with anxiety and he couldn't believe I had managed to live like this for so long and encouraged me to get help ( I had previously been told that all women don't sleep by a male dr and that was that and I didn't seek further help then).

I remember taking beta blockers for the first time and it was like someone had turned the volume of the world down, only then did it hit me how bad things had been for so long.

They worked for a while then one day I left for work and had a major breakdown in the street. I was signed off for 2 months and suicidal and I'm lucky to be here today.

I think you never know if its going to be you who has MH problems, I never expected things to turn as they did.

I am glad your boss is sympathetic OP, I hope your colleague also gets the help he needs.

A Dr later commented that there is a reason that sleep deprivation is a form of torture.

firstimemamma · 12/04/2021 20:29

DP is a paramedic and has never once called in sick due to baby related sleep deprivation. I don't get it to be honest. If everyone did that think how many people would be phoning in sick!

sodalite · 12/04/2021 20:31

I took a day off sick for the first time in 3 years and dragged myself in the next day out of guilt clearly too soon and ended up going home half way through the day because I was still clearly ill and my employee warned me that would be my second strike because I'd been back in and if I was off again in a year I'd be out of the job.
There's no security at all knowing you can't be ill or it's game over.

Alsohuman · 12/04/2021 20:33

@bookworm1632

Anyone who answers YABU has NEVER suffered from insomnia.

Yeah - you might have had a couple of nights where you were awake till 4am counting sheep, whatever - sorry that doesn't count.

Sleep deprivation is a classic torture technique - keep waking someone up just as they are about to sleep. Do it for a week and it's more effective than any physical abuse.

I’ve had insomnia for years. Whole nights with no sleep at all. I never, ever took a day off work.
linsey2581 · 12/04/2021 20:36

For everyone saying that's a poor excuse or he should just get on with it as I just got on with it. Would you all be saying this if it was a woman having to phone in sick? No you would all be supportive and saying where is your useless hubby. Maybe dad is having other problems beside a colic baby, maybe needs a bit more support with a newborn. There is so much support for new mums but never for new dad's.