To think it’s about time all women were Ms or Mrs following this plane error

[AtlasPine]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/tui-plane-serious-incident-every-miss-on-board-child-weight-birmingham-majorca

The confusion caused here could have had dire consequences.

Isn’t it about time we dropped the title ‘Miss’ to differentiate between adult women and girls?

When I was 18 I managed to fly on my cousin's ticket. Same initial and surname but she was 11, nobody noticed until she tried to fly on my ticket. Definitely definitely need generally better rules and checks. I know this is slightly off topic but it just shows things are checked well.

I hate the idea of eroding traditions.

Why on earth is it a problem to anyone of you are married or not?

I always think people that use Ms are making some sort of point.

I was so excited when first married that I became Mrs husband's name.

I always think people that use Ms are making some sort of point

I was so excited when first married that I became Mrs husband's name

And you're not making a point using Mrs?

Judging someone on the basis of being Miss Mrs or Ms says more about the person doing the judging than the person being judged. I don't think I've ever suffered from being a Miss or a Mrs. People should have the right and confidence to use any title they like. Call yourself Mr if you want to, no one can stop you.

eroding traditions - what, like sending kids up chimneys?

Obviously traditions get eroded. For good reason.

There are other titles as well, Dr, Professor, Reverend etc. Maybe make yourself a minister of your own religion and call yourself Reverend. We have freedom of religion, maybe we could be ministers.

I was so excited when first married that I became Mrs husband's name

Why were you so excited? For people to know you were married?

How does your husband feel about not being able to change his name and title so everyone knows he is married? Was he devastated, poor thing?

Can’t you see the double standard? If women are so excited to change name and title on marriage, why aren’t men demanding they also get to?

Yeah. Because nobody cares and actually being married doesn’t confer them any advantages, and in fact disadvantages women in the workplace. Why do you think applications are increasingly “blind”? Because no one will employ a Mrs between 20-40 given a choice to avoid maternity costs.

@VanGoghsDog

eroding traditions - what, like sending kids up chimneys?Obviously traditions get eroded. For good reason

Actually some of those kids are soooooo excited to go up their first chimney. They wear their blackened faces with pride.

Why should we deny all kids the chance to go up chimneys just because some killjoy child labour campaigners (who probably can't even get a hubby lol) are too scared to do it themselves?!

What harm does it do? The other kids can always make a free choice not to go up chimneys right?

I am indeed making a point by using Ms.
That point is I’m not a child and it’s no ones business whether I’m married or not. Personally I’m not married but even when I was engaged I planned to use Ms and not change my name.
I don’t really see it as “eroding tradition” - it’s my personal choice. No ones gonna stop anyone using “Mrs” if they want to.

What a ridiculous notion! Why should women have to change what they call themselves? Here’s an idea: perhaps TUI shouldn’t outsource their programming to countries where other standards are adopted for paternistically-constructed categorisations of females, and instead should determine an average weight/payload based on whether adult or child tickets have been purchased for the flight...

@Notjustanymum

What a ridiculous notion! Why should women have to change what they call themselves? Here’s an idea: perhaps TUI shouldn’t outsource their programming to countries where other standards are adopted for paternistically-constructed categorisations of females, and instead should determine an average weight/payload based on whether adult or child tickets have been purchased for the flight...

As said by other posters, there are usually no child tickets - all seats are the same for most airlines. BUT, airlines DO have dates of birth which need to be entered when checking in, so they DO already have a better way of determining how many children and how many adults are on the plane.

Thanks @user1497207191, that’s what I meant: tickets purchased for adults or children by DoB - they do have that info already😁

I always think people that use Ms are making some sort of point.

There is no choice for women where the person isn’t making some sort of point.

That’s the problem.

@bluebluezoo

It was my choice. My husband didn't mind either way, he didn't want to double barrel (fair enough; his choice to keep the name he was born with) and I chose to be Mrs Reacher. It doesn't affect anyone else other than me

That choice wasn’t made in a vacuum though.

Funny how men always choose to keep the name they are born with, and it’s always a woman’s choice to change her name and title.

If it were truly an equal choice it would be 50:50 men:women changing names.

"Funny how men always choose to keep the name" - not ALWAYS. Its only that many couples continue old traditions, by mutual choice. In Spain, it is traditional to double-barrel the surnames. In England, less so. Certainly, getting the balance closer to 50:50 would be nice, but many people don't do it because a single-barrelled name is simpler. At the end of the day, it is personal choice. Both men and women are free to choose whatever they want. It is nobody else's business what another person chooses, regardless of them being male or female. If a man keeps his birthname, it is not sexist, nor a crime and it doesn't make him an evil person. The issue is that many women do change their name, so maybe they are not so aware of the fact they have freedom of choice here. Perhaps this needs more publicity. Traditions are not always changed overnight. They tend to phase out of time, or get changed because of some fashionable trend. Look at all those boys out there named after footballers. And girls named after female celebrities. To change it, some trendy new star would have to lead the way, as people often behave like clones. And ironically it is this 'cloning' that has kept this fashion relatively unchanged.

What harm does it do? The other kids can always make a free choice not to go up chimneys right?

Yeah but those kids are obviously trying to make some kind of a point, the bastards.

@JassyRadlett

I always think people that use Ms are making some sort of point.

There is no choice for women where the person isn’t making some sort of point.

That’s the problem.

Exercising freedom of choice does not equate to 'making some sort of point'. If I wear red shoes today, it does not necessarily mean that I am not wearing underwear. If people want to dream that my decisions have alternative motives, then that this their problem. I don't have to give a monkey's uncle about what thoughts they might have in their head. I am Ms, Miss or Mrs. Take it or leave it. My choice. My business. No point to make in doing so.

MakeMathsFun

Re talking about "points" you seem to have missed it completely.

I am Ms, Miss or Mrs. Take it or leave it. My choice. My business. No point to make in doing so.

But you make it everybody’s business by having to advertise the fact that you are Ms, Miss or Mrs. Everybody now knows and may judge. A man advertises nothing by being Mr. No one knows anything, no one judges. Women are compelled to advertise themselves- and be judged - one way or another.

@Countrygirl2021

I hate the idea of eroding traditions.

Why on earth is it a problem to anyone of you are married or not?

I always think people that use Ms are making some sort of point.

I was so excited when first married that I became Mrs husband's name.

I always think people who were excited about becoming Mrs husband's name were the sort of girls who dreamed of a big white wedding and endlessly practiced their new signature with the last name of whatever boy they were going out with at school. Probably perfectly nice, but not the sort of person I'd particularly get on with (and vice versa, no doubt) And yes, I'm making a point by being Ms!

The idea that the title a woman chooses is no more laden with meaning, social signals and open to prejudices than the shoes she wears on a given day is so at odds with reality that the suggestion is either totally disingenuous or utterly disconnected from reality.

Some men do change their names and not everyone takes their father's name. Prince Philip is in the news at the moment, he chose the name Mountbatten, not his father's name, and not originally his mother's family name. Some women don't change their name, I'm not sure but I don't think the Queen changed her name.

All sorts of things are possible and usually without insisting everyone has to do it your way.

Insisting everyone does something in a way which doesn’t perpetuate outdated ideas about women is a good thing surely? It surely tops trumps the “ but I like being called Miss or Mrs” in terms of logical argument.

I’m not even sure we need to distinguish between child and adult as any legal requirement for age can be done by DOB. That would stop the discrimination of women of childbearing age as a PP mentioned.

It just doesn’t make sense. And it’s also daft to say you can chose what ever you want to be called when very clearly the titles have specific meaning. An eight year old girl called “Mrs” is clearly wrong ; people would form an opinion/ judgement on why she was called that it would be ridiculous to say “well that’s their problem”.

@ancientgran

Some men do change their names and not everyone takes their father's name. Prince Philip is in the news at the moment, he chose the name Mountbatten, not his father's name, and not originally his mother's family name. Some women don't change their name, I'm not sure but I don't think the Queen changed her name.

All sorts of things are possible and usually without insisting everyone has to do it your way.

Prince Philip has numerous titles non of which other men are allowed to hold. Its not really an example of sexual equality.

It is about his name though, sorry if that messes things up.

@Thewinterofdiscontent

Insisting everyone does something in a way which doesn’t perpetuate outdated ideas about women is a good thing surely? It surely tops trumps the “ but I like being called Miss or Mrs” in terms of logical argument.

I’m not even sure we need to distinguish between child and adult as any legal requirement for age can be done by DOB. That would stop the discrimination of women of childbearing age as a PP mentioned.

It just doesn’t make sense. And it’s also daft to say you can chose what ever you want to be called when very clearly the titles have specific meaning. An eight year old girl called “Mrs” is clearly wrong ; people would form an opinion/ judgement on why she was called that it would be ridiculous to say “well that’s their problem”.

If this is about equality calling a female child Miss is no different to calling a male child Master so I don't see the problem.

I don't know why we need a title in the first place, if you're ordering a dress from M&S does the fact that you're a doctor matter, does the fact you're married or not matter but if we are going to let people use titles I'm all for them choosing their title.