Page 14 | To think it’s about time all women were Ms or Mrs following this plane error

carolinesbaby · 11/04/2021 13:00

@MissBarbary

I've never once when this subject comes up heard any convincing argument from the "Mrs" brigade as to why there needs to be a title which announces their marital status.

French, German, Dutch women seem to manage fine with just being adults.

My argument is "because I want to". That's enough, surely? Your choice to be Ms or Miss; mine to be Mrs. Nobody else's business except mine.

MissBarbary · 11/04/2021 14:27

My argument is "because I want to". That's enough, surely? Your choice to be Ms or Miss; mine to be Mrs. Nobody else's business except mine

That's not an argument for it. Why do you need or want to tell the whole world you're married. Your husband doesn't does he ? He was Mr before he married you and is still Mr.

Your comment about it being nobody else's business except yours shows you really don't understand the issue. The fact that you need to tell every single person who has any dealings with you that you are married means that you are in fact making it every one else's business.

Why ? What's the big deal? Are you so insecure you have to tell everyone you've bagged a man?

bluebluezoo · 11/04/2021 14:35

My argument is "because I want to". That's enough, surely? Your choice to be Ms or Miss; mine to be Mrs. Nobody else's business except mine

Yet so many judge when a woman chooses to use the Dr title she has earned.

notimagain · 11/04/2021 14:48

@notagainmummy

What a ridiculous system. Surely they should use adult male/female, or child?

That's basically how most airlines normally do it and quite possibly how TUI did it prior to the upgrade. It's also quite possibly what TUI are doing again now following the fix to the upgrade that gets mentioned in the incident report.

Hanidjed7 · 11/04/2021 15:03

@endofthelinefinally

They should just weigh everyone. There was a fatal crash years ago due to underestimation of passenger weights. If you go on a small plane you have to be weighed.

This! This airline error shows just how important weight is in a flight. Everyone should be weighed not just bags. Instead of putting your bags on the weigher you should stand on it and weigh yourself and bags. Each family gets a luggage allowance but I've long thought it should be a full weight allowance of family and baggage!

LegoPoliceman · 11/04/2021 15:03

I don't see why this is a situation where it's offered as an option. Like PP said, adult male/female would have sufficed.

On most forms, there isn't any need for anything beyond Mr/Ms. If they need to know your marital status for any reason, then they presumably also need the marital status of any of the men filling out the form. If they don't, they don't need anyone's.
You're a Ms by virtue of being an adult female. Just as men are Mr by virtue of being an adult male.

JassyRadlett · 11/04/2021 15:15

Yet so many judge when a woman chooses to use the Dr title she has earned.

Come on. Being able to discern her marital status is so much more important.

TurquoiseDress · 11/04/2021 15:17

Or how about the system uses dates of birth instead and work it out by age?

Seems much better than going by female titles

Also a Mr could be a 3 year old or full grown adult, hardly failsafe, why give women fewer choice of titles instead?

Yolande7 · 11/04/2021 15:18

Why Ms or Mrs? Ms includes Miss and Mrs. Ms is the equivalent to Mr.

notimagain · 11/04/2021 15:37

This airline error shows just how important weight is in a flight. Everyone should be weighed not just bags. Instead of putting your bags on the weigher you should stand on it and weigh yourself and bags.

Current system, properly functioning, properly monitored works perfectly well on large, heavy even when empty aircraft because of the chosen value of the standard weights, plus the way stats usually work out with large population number. What you do still need to look out for is you not carrying a lot of outliers such as a squad of several dozen NFL players...

It doesn't work out so well with smaller numbers because of the chance of one or two people being overweight/underweight skewing the figures away from anything derived by statistical values. Also for small aircraft the chances are the mass of the passengers/crew and their bags might make up a much bigger percentage of the total aircraft weight - That's the reason for weighing people before flights on really small aircraft..

I'm really not sure how popular weighing everybody would be in these days of on-line check-in and bag drops...

Whatamess582 · 11/04/2021 18:18

Personally I actually have more of a problem with Mrs. Why can’t we all be Miss... or Ms if people don’t like the ‘unmarried’ legacy that Miss has. I just don’t feel the need to tell everyone I am married or not. Why can I not just be ‘Miss/Ms Surname’

Or just do away with titles altogether and just have first names and surnames.

daisypond · 11/04/2021 18:25

Mrs historically doesn’t indicate marriage. It’s an honorific title for often older women. A housekeeper or cook in olden days would be Mrs- as befits their status as senior members of the household.

LyraShaeLilly · 11/04/2021 18:48

Should drop Mrs too, there is only one title for men and this should be the same for women - Ms

Wanderlust20 · 11/04/2021 18:51

YABU as is the airline to make such a stupid assumption! Women can call themselves whatever the hell they want, getting rid of miss only takes away choices.

OwlBeThere · 11/04/2021 18:52

I like being a miss thanks.

HalzTangz · 11/04/2021 19:28

@AtlasPine

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/tui-plane-serious-incident-every-miss-on-board-child-weight-birmingham-majorca

The confusion caused here could have had dire consequences.

Isn’t it about time we dropped the title ‘Miss’ to differentiate between adult women and girls?

This wasn't confusion, it was someone's mistake programming software to class miss as a child. I am a miss and don't wish to be called ms or Mrs. Maybe the solution is not to use the term miss on bookings for under 18 year old

daisypond · 11/04/2021 20:20

Scrap the whole lot. Everyone, unmarried, married, male, female can be Cn for citizen.

carolinesbaby · 11/04/2021 21:20

@bluebluezoo

My argument is "because I want to". That's enough, surely? Your choice to be Ms or Miss; mine to be Mrs. Nobody else's business except mine

Yet so many judge when a woman chooses to use the Dr title she has earned.

I don't judge that. I admire, because I never got any further than a BA (hons).

carolinesbaby · 11/04/2021 21:23

@notimagain

This airline error shows just how important weight is in a flight. Everyone should be weighed not just bags. Instead of putting your bags on the weigher you should stand on it and weigh yourself and bags.

Current system, properly functioning, properly monitored works perfectly well on large, heavy even when empty aircraft because of the chosen value of the standard weights, plus the way stats usually work out with large population number. What you do still need to look out for is you not carrying a lot of outliers such as a squad of several dozen NFL players...

It doesn't work out so well with smaller numbers because of the chance of one or two people being overweight/underweight skewing the figures away from anything derived by statistical values. Also for small aircraft the chances are the mass of the passengers/crew and their bags might make up a much bigger percentage of the total aircraft weight - That's the reason for weighing people before flights on really small aircraft..

I'm really not sure how popular weighing everybody would be in these days of on-line check-in and bag drops...

Weighing people as well as bags would be very unpopular and with good reason. It would be grossly unfair. If your family are all six footers, they will weigh more than the next family who are all under 5'5. Why should the short family be allowed to take more luggage/pay less, it's hardly the tall people's fault that they are tall.

daisypond · 11/04/2021 21:33

It wouldn’t be grossly unfair. Tall people are generally advantaged in life. Shorter people have to suffer unfairness in all sorts of ways.

MissBarbary · 11/04/2021 22:05

@LyraShaeLilly

Should drop Mrs too, there is only one title for men and this should be the same for women - Ms

It doesn't really matter whether it's Mrs or Ms which becomes the title for a female over 18- there- just needs to be one. "Mr." works for all adult males with no need to tell the world whether a man is married or single. Many languages don't have any title that demonstrates women's marital status.

I've still not heard any sensible argument for Mrs and Miss.

MissBarbary · 11/04/2021 22:12

I am a miss and don't wish to be called ms or Mrs. Maybe the solution is not to use the term miss on bookings for under 18 year old

It seems completely bonkers to me that so many women so willingly adopt a title that shows they are married but equally it seems bonkers to be so attached to one which shows you are single.

I can't stand "Mrs" - it seems very needy to be honest, so use Ms or Miss but my ideal is that there is only one title which shows I'm an adult and not a " Mr". If English followed other European styles that would be "Mrs".
I would not have any issue with "Mrs" as just being the English equivalent of Madame, Frau etc.

MonkeyNotOrgangrinder · 12/04/2021 06:37

I believe it's standard in the USA for women to be known only as Ms. Presumably how this happened with Boeing being an American company.

Mummadeze · 12/04/2021 06:42

I can’t believe the average adult female weight is 69k (10 stone 6). Makes me feel massively overweight. I thought as an average it would be higher than that!

Brahumbug · 12/04/2021 07:26

I do not like mrs or ms, I would be happy if the title was straightforward miss. Historically, Mrs and miss are both abbreviations of mistress.