To think it’s about time all women were Ms or Mrs following this plane error

[AtlasPine]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/tui-plane-serious-incident-every-miss-on-board-child-weight-birmingham-majorca

The confusion caused here could have had dire consequences.

Isn’t it about time we dropped the title ‘Miss’ to differentiate between adult women and girls?

I think Miss should be reserved for female children.

That's what you think, why don't I get a choice in what I use? I don't want to be Mrs Janeway, that's my mother. I don't want to be Ms Janeway, sounds like a demented bee. I want to be Miss Janeway. Why do your views supercede mine?

So we should give men an additional option, not reduce the options for women

As others have said what on earth is the reason for having an option to show your marital status?

@KatherineJaneway

I think Miss should be reserved for female children.

That's what you think, why don't I get a choice in what I use? I don't want to be Mrs Janeway, that's my mother. I don't want to be Ms Janeway, sounds like a demented bee. I want to be Miss Janeway. Why do your views supercede mine?

Why? What's the big deal about having a title that shows you aren't married? It's just as pointless as one that shows you are.

I loathe "Mrs" because it means I'm married but it's not the sound of the word as such but the meaning. If every adult woman was "Mrs" I would not have a problem with it.

Does anyone know if there is any language other than English which has this absurd distinction between married and unmarried women?

Why? What's the big deal about having a title that shows you aren't married? It's just as pointless as one that shows you are.

I think that's the primary difference. You see it only as an indication of marriage status, I don't. It's my title, I’ve had it for decades and it is part of me in an odd way. I couldn't give a shit if someone goes 'Oh, Janeway is not married!' Who cares? If all they have to think about is my marital status they have far bigger problems to deal with 🤣

@KatherineJaneway

Why do you think that people shouldn’t express their views unless they align with yours?

[quote LaLaLandIsNoFun]@KatherineJaneway

Why do you think that people shouldn’t express their views unless they align with yours?[/quote]
I haven't said that.

We're having a debate. Some people are saying I have to change my preferred title because they don't like it. No questions asked, they're right, I'm wrong. I'm simply countering with my point of view.

Neither of us will change our minds but my responses might make someone reflect that just because they think something should happen, doesn't mean it should and there is another side of the argument.

I am willing to bet if you gave men the choice of title they’d all stick with Mr. None of them would choose the “look I’m married” option, in the same way changing their name doesn’t even occur to them.

I find people do judge you on title. When I was young and unmarried, i found getting people to take me seriously as Miss was quite difficult. I struggled to register with estate agents, for example, as they all expected me to need a husband to be able to buy. Same with credit applications, and others trying to take advantage.

Once I started using Dr I was in no different position- yet suddenly I could hear the switch in tone to one of respect when I was asked if I was “Miss or Mrs”. Almost like oh fuck I’m talking to someone who knows her stuff, rather than a naive young Miss or a Mrs who’s only interest is children and needs her husbands permission to do anything.

@KatherineJaneway its basically that we are asking women to do something that we aren't asking men to do. Therefore it is sexist. That's it. You either care about equality or you don't, I guess. I'm not suggesting you don't.

I imagine a great many misses on that flight were over 69kg lol.

Some people are saying I have to change my preferred title because they don't like it. No questions asked, they're right, I'm wrong. I'm simply countering with my point of view

Actually I think most people are querying the absurdity of having titles which shows a woman's marital status. It's not as if there is suddenly going to be a law forcing you to give up "miss"

I still however haven't seen any sensible reason from any of the Miss or Mrs diehards about why women have these absurd titles.

Some people are saying I have to change my preferred title because they don't like it.

No, it’s not because “they don’t like it”. It’s because some people using Miss or Mrs affects all women. It makes a statement, whichever way. Even Ms, supposedly neutral, is affected by it. Men’s Mr is neutral. None of women’s titles are. If you use Miss or Mrs, those who use Ms are judged and categorised too. Your “liberty” affects and damages other people.

@lemonsyellow

Some people are saying I have to change my preferred title because they don't like it.

No, it’s not because “they don’t like it”. It’s because some people using Miss or Mrs affects all women. It makes a statement, whichever way. Even Ms, supposedly neutral, is affected by it. Men’s Mr is neutral. None of women’s titles are. If you use Miss or Mrs, those who use Ms are judged and categorised too. Your “liberty” affects and damages other people.

So your liberty is more important? Is that what you are saying?

So your liberty is more important? Is that what you are saying?

Could someone explain to me what is so important about having the liberty to tell an airline company that you aren't married?

I really don't understand this. Men go through life perfectly fine with "Mr". Women in most non- English speaking countries go through life with their respective female equivalent of "Mr".

What benefit does having the "choice" of Miss, Mrs or Mrs confer on women who live in an English speaking country?

So your liberty is more important? Is that what you are saying?

No, it’s not about the individual. It’s not about my liberty, or your liberty. It’s about society - the freedom for citizens to do what they will, as long as it doesn’t damage or have a negative impact on others. A universal word for all adult women doesn’t damage anyone, doesn’t have a negative impact on some women, but words that define women by their married state damage all women. Men and women could have the same word, as far as I’m concerned, too. No great need to separate men and women into categories either.

What benefit does having the "choice" of Miss, Mrs or Mrs confer on women who live in an English speaking country?

No one seems to have come up with anything tangible for this one. It’s been asked repeatedly.

No, it’s not because “they don’t like it”. It’s because some people using Miss or Mrs affects all women. It makes a statement, whichever way. Even Ms, supposedly neutral, is affected by it. Men’s Mr is neutral. None of women’s titles are. If you use Miss or Mrs, those who use Ms are judged and categorised too. Your “liberty” affects and damages other people.

So any woman using 'Miss' or 'Mrs' is actively damaging other women? If you hate the titles that much, start a national campaign for their abolishment, but I think it is a bit much to say using a title is purposefully damaging to other women especially if they have been called that for years.

@lemonsyellow

So your liberty is more important? Is that what you are saying?

No, it’s not about the individual. It’s not about my liberty, or your liberty. It’s about society - the freedom for citizens to do what they will, as long as it doesn’t damage or have a negative impact on others. A universal word for all adult women doesn’t damage anyone, doesn’t have a negative impact on some women, but words that define women by their married state damage all women. Men and women could have the same word, as far as I’m concerned, too. No great need to separate men and women into categories either.

Well some women on here want to keep the title they have so not sure why anyone has the right to stop them. Couldn't care less personally but do feel for people who get dictated to.

How does someone being a Mrs damage anyone?

@JassyRadlett

What benefit does having the "choice" of Miss, Mrs or Mrs confer on women who live in an English speaking country?

No one seems to have come up with anything tangible for this one. It’s been asked repeatedly.

What harm does it do? No one is forced to use Miss Mrs or Ms, it is their choice, a single woman can use Mrs is she wants to a married woman can use Miss they all can use Ms.

I can't imagine judging anyone on the basis of the title they use, why would you. What judgement would you make? Do you imagine one group of women is better than the other?

Yabu
I like being a miss, that shouldn’t have to change because tui fucked up

If women were 'forced' into any particular title, then it would be sexist, as men do not have titles that distinguish marital status. However, there is no force as women can choose any title they like. Nobody judges them on it, regardless.
Men are disadvantaged by not having the choice that expresses they are married or unmarried. It would be nice for men to have that same option, but they don't - so that could be sexist.
Women = choice of three (whether of benefit or not)
Men = choice of two
I know a men who want the choice, because they are tired of (mainly women) asking them if they are married or not. The unmarried men in this case felt uncomfortable repeating it, as they felt they had to justify why they were single. If they could say, I'm Ms Smith, then no furrther questions. Simple.

Exactly how does my choice to be Mrs Reacher, rather than Ms Reacher, Ms Reacher-BirthName, or Ms BirthName or Miss BirthName, affect anyone else other than me?

It was my choice. My husband didn't mind either way, he didn't want to double barrel (fair enough; his choice to keep the name he was born with) and I chose to be Mrs Reacher. It doesn't affect anyone else other than me.

It was my choice. My husband didn't mind either way, he didn't want to double barrel (fair enough; his choice to keep the name he was born with) and I chose to be Mrs Reacher. It doesn't affect anyone else other than me

That choice wasn’t made in a vacuum though.

Funny how men always choose to keep the name they are born with, and it’s always a woman’s choice to change her name and title.

If it were truly an equal choice it would be 50:50 men:women changing names.

What harm does it do? No one is forced to use Miss Mrs or Ms, it is their choice, a single woman can use Mrs is she wants to a married woman can use Miss they all can use Ms.

This has been answered upthread. There isn’t a truly neutral title, as I explained in a previous post. Even ‘Ms’ is saying that you are choosing not to use the other titles, that you actively don’t choose to share your marital status, and it comes with baggage - see some of the assumptions and comments upthread.

We can’t choose not to use a title. We are forced to use one, and none are truly neutral.

But after that we come back to - what’s the benefit to all? The answer is that there isn’t really one, or men would be clamouring for titles to show their marital status.

If women were 'forced' into any particular title, then it would be sexist, as men do not have titles that distinguish marital status. However, there is no force as women can choose any title they like. Nobody judges them on it, regardless

😂😂

Have you read the thread? People judge based on all three main female titles.

Men are disadvantaged by not having the choice that expresses they are married or unmarried.

Can you explain the disadvantages they encounter by not sharing their marital status through their title, please?

Men are disadvantaged by not having the choice that expresses they are married or unmarried. It would be nice for men to have that same option, but they don't - so that could be sexist

What on earth is the purpose of having a title to show your marital status? And in what possible way does the lack of this option disadvantage men?

Women = choice of three (whether of benefit or not)
Men = choice of two

Two? You cannot seriously be suggesting "Master" as an option for men?