Child maintenance and the ex

[kat5682]

A common story of woe i'm sure but I need some advice!

The ex was made redundant in the middle of September - he knew it was happening in August but they were furloughing him until then.
He tells me he'll give me what he can towards our 11 year old twins support so I get a bit in October and then a bit less in November and then nothing. He refused to talk about it via text (infuriating) so we had a big barney on the doorstep as he refused to talk to me. He reveals that he's not actually looking for a job and is trying to set up his web design business instead - he tried this when we were married and it was a disaster. I asked him to try and get some sort of job to support the kids - e.g. I found 12 pages of delivery driver jobs online in his area - but he refused to do anything. I even wrote a big long email to his family explaining the kids are as much their responsibility as they are my families, how I was terrified about how I'll survive etc. and their reply was 'we're confident he's looking to resolve the situation'.
I've been raging ever since and have refused to talk to him except about when he's having the kids.

At the end of the doorstop barney his girlfriend (who was sniggering next to him the entire time) said we'll have to go through the child maintenance service then. So I did, and CMA said that as he has them more than 52 days a year he doesn't need to contribute because he's on benefits.

He asked about a week ago if he could have them for May half term as his parents are visiting and I said we'd have to wait and see where Covid rules are up to as it's 2 months away.

Tonight I asked him if he had any plans to send support as it's been 5 months now and he's said I know the CMAs decision and he's looked after the kids when I've asked. I replied saying I don't need him to do that as I now permanently work from home and its so they can spend time with their father. CMA also only review decisions every 12 months so until he submits his tax documents in April next year as he's now self employed I won't get any support for 12 MONTHS minimum.

Now you've read the drama show - a question - is there anything I can do?!
The only thing I can think of is to restrict the time he has them to 51 days a year only so CMA can send me some support from his benefits but thats rubbish putting the kids in the middle and it's the last thing I want to do. HELP!?

AnneElliott

Only I bet it’s the same ones on here screaming the family are responsible are the same ones who were on the other thread saying they aren’t. Maybe the family CANT afford to pay for the children? My mum is on disability benefits because she is disabled. She couldn’t afford to pay child maintenance for my brothers children even if she wanted to. (Brother and SIL are still together so irrelevant anyway) but you seem to not be taking into consideration that they probably can’t afford to.

Nor should respective families have too. It’s the parents and solely the parents responsible for financially supporting a child. Sadly many opt out and more should be done by the government to not allow that to be the case whether male or female. If there were harsh penalties in place maybe more would think twice about having children or ensure they could afford them regardless of a change in circumstances.

@bluebluezoo

Do you work o/p?

Yes, see the OP.

The child has two parents who can earn they don't need grandparents stepping in financially. They need their dad to get a job.

Who is in charge of this pathetic policy?

The ex’s family should be ashamed of their son. What a waste of space. Him starting a new business shouldn’t take priority over feeding his children.

I always look for overhauling deadbeat dads in election promises. I never see it and yet they owe millions for the upkeep of their children! Meantime the children suffer. And the mums (95% mums I suspect) struggle. This is no way to run a country. I wonder what the figures are?

What happens in the US if you don’t pay? At least they have consequences by the sounds of it.

This should be a Mumsnet campaign ...

Do you work op? Do you get all the benefits you’re entitled to? You can’t force someone who doesn’t have any income to pay you maintenance. It’s frustrating but please don’t take it out on your kids. Screaming at their dad on the doorstep and writing to his family is not easy on your kids. Neither is trying to cut off access.

My parents had a horrible divorce with lots of screaming at each other. It’s really damaging. My ex doesn’t pay anything but I never am anything but friendly in front of the kids. He should pay his maintenance but I’m not going to be a bad parent because of it.

I never see it and yet they owe millions for the upkeep of their children!

Have a look on the other thread about CMS taking account of step parents earnings (why are there so many threads on this topic at the moment?) and you will see that, according to the official government statistics, over the last five years (2015-2020) the CMS has been responsible for overseeing just over £4 billion (£4.067 billion) of payments.

£3 billion of that was through Direct Pay and just over £1 billion through Collect & Pay.

Of that £4 billion around £380 million has not been paid. So, over 90% of child maintenance payments have been made over the last five years.

Just to clarify, the barney on the doorstep didn't involve screaming, just arguing around and around and around the same issues. The kids didn't hear anything as they were indoors but as he wasn't answering any of my messages I didn't have any other way to discuss it with him.

@AnneElliott

I'd want to know if my so wasn't paying for his kids - I'd be embarrassed as his mother should be. It means you haven't raised them right that they can think that they can walk away from their responsibilities.

How's he feeding himself if he's not bringing in any money? Where is he living?

I don't agree that CM should be based on what the NRP earns. It should be based on half the basic costs of raising a child. And they should owe that sum irrespective of whether they're earning or not. We should enforce it like the US do. No getting married again or driving a car if you owe child support.

Different families will have different ideas as to what constitutes 'basic' living costs, hence why that would never work, apart from the fact that NRP's cant pay what they dont have. If the NRP is on benefits and receives £409.89 per month, how much can they realistically afford to pay for their childrens basic needs?

To put the responsibility onto extended families doesnt work, they have no legal responsibility for their GC, or are you suggesting they should have legal responsibilities towards their GC?

Sadly this is our system.

In your shoes I’d also be furious. I’d write to my MP pointing out that there are 2 children in need of looking after and you don’t have the luxury of deciding to just start your own business without a plan on how you are going to continue to meet your obligations while you do that so why is it ok for him?
Then I’d budget on the basis that he will continue to pay nothing. I would not protect him from the consequences of his actions. If you can’t afford things for your kids and they ask I would matter of factly say that you cannot afford that and why. I wouldn’t bad mouth him, just stick to the facts. I’d also get him to have the kids as much as he wants and they want. There’s a good chance that once they are teenagers they won’t be as interested in rural Wales. Take advantage of the benefit this gives you budget wise while it lasts.

And yes this is shot and unfair and yet again the women are picking up the pieces

I completely get why you are pissed off. CMS are shocking and always in favour of the paying parent. The whole system is so unfair

@nickymanchester - thanks for pasting the CMS website on here, but the reality is there is a huge gap between what absent fathers could pay and what they do pay...

Every week on mumsnet there is some shit bloke who has got around the system by going self-employed, moved house, yet has plenty of cash - and a single mother trying to feed her children from a food bank with insufficient childcare to work more hours.

And then there’s a 12 months before they’re reassessed and the whole cycle restarts. To the outsider this looks as though the government don’t expect men to pay for their own children. As though they are more the mothers responsibility.

Are there consequences for non payment of child support??

If all the feckless fathers paid child support we could probably eliminate a chunk of child poverty.

OP I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. Are there benefits you can access? A food bank even?

Your ex is useless but he is still their father. Don't use contact as a bargaining tool. My ex was an abusive bastard but dc loved him, he was unreliable - I even needed to pay for childcare when it was his contact incase he didn't show. However my dc loved him and wanted to see him, he died when they were still primary age and I'm so glad I bent over backward to facilitate contact, their memories of him are positive ones. ( Never got maintenance either)

I can see why he's an ex. But tbh there's nothing you can do about it...

As for withholding access, surely you're cutting your nose off to spite your face, not to mention it affecting your dc as their relationship with their father will suffer.

It's shit, he's an arsehole, but he's still their df so I'd just try and put your head down and get on with it. You can't control him or his actions. All you can do is be the best mother you can be. Eventually the dc will see what a useless waste of space he is

Every week on mumsnet there is some shit bloke who has got around the system by going self-employed, moved house, yet has plenty of cash - and a single mother trying to feed her children from a food bank with insufficient childcare to work more hours.

Of course there are. Has anybody tried to say that this doesn't happen?

But, from the CMS figures, it would seem that for every NRP that doesn't pay there are nine NRPs that do pay.

How many women are going to come on here and post that their exH is paying their cm every week/month and everything is going fine? What would be the point of posting just to say that your life is going fine?

It's those who are having problems that will post here for help and/or to vent.

Are these blokes arseholes? Yes. Are all men like this? Nine out of ten aren't.

Are there consequences for non payment of child support??

Yes.

The figures are all available from the government website here:-

Child Maintenance Service statistics: data to September 2020

If NRPs don't pay then the CMS will make a deduction from earnings order (DEO) or a lump sum deduction order to remove money from a bank account.

The figures for 2020 are not complete and, in any event, due to the Coronavirus outbreak, during the quarter ending June 2020, the CMS suspended new enforcement action so you can't really compare the figures.

But, in 2018 there were 2,200 Lump Sum Deduction Orders which collected a total of £4.1 million (an average of £1,860 each). The same figures for 2019 were 2,800 orders and a total of £6 million collected (an average of £2,140 each). That's straight out of the bank accounts of NRPs.

Then, when it comes to DEOs, at the end of 2019 there were 50,200 people subject to DEOs of whom 41,100 (82%) were compliant and paying £110 million per year.

Going further, when it comes to liability orders, over 10,000 were granted in 2019 and 8,800 cases were referred to enforcement agents. Between these two they brought in £7.8 million of payments.

Then when it comes to going to court they only have the figures for the last 6 months of 2019.

During that time - just six months - there were 197 suspended prison sentences made (where the NRP was told that if they did not pay then they would go to prison).

There were also 6 cases of people actually going to prison for not paying.

There were also 4 suspended passport confiscations and 4 suspended disqualifications from driving. There were also 3 immediate passport confiscations.

So, yes, NRPs really do go to prison for not paying. Six NRPs went to prison over the course of six months for not paying. It really does happen.

Sorry OP but you are acting as if this is all a big shock. Maintenance can disapoear at any time which is why it isn't consider for benefit purposes any longer.

You are hassling him and worse,making threats to reduce contact,punishing your kids, that's terrible.

I agree that he should be doing any kind whilst setting up his business, but depending on the situation, giving a 100% to the business might mean more maintenance soon.

In the end, you can't make him a financially responsible father, it doesn't mean the kids should be penalised. And leave his family alone.

He is irresponsible father, however you are acting very inappropriately. Reducing the contact is a big no as it just makes things worse for the children. Arguing in front of the girlfriend is pretty bad too. But the worse is the email to the family.
You can't force him to get a job and if he doesn't feel like he should provide for his own children now then he never will.
Your best option is to look into increasing your own income. Tough but realistic.

I'm actually astounded at some of the replies on here.
Maintenance can disappear at any time?? And that makes it okay does it?
You're hassling him?!!? Oh, god forbid the OP asks the father of her children to financially provide for them so they don't suffer?? As long as the poor man isn't hassled???

My exH pays me maintenance every month, but it still isn't equivalent to half the costs of raising our two children. I used to phone the CMS every month when his payments didn't show, begging them, asking how I was expected to feed my children, and the policies were just so lacking. The idea of CMS is to ensure NRPs are financially supporting the children they helped to create, keeping kids out of poverty but the system is unfit for purpose because it simply doesn't do that.

OP, I'm sorry this is happening to you and I'm sorry I have no advice, but I support you.
Situations like these are ridiculous. 9/10 NRPs pay... great! But that means there are still 1/10 who don't and that could be thousands of children suffering.

Put your children at the centre. You sound obsessed and money grabbing tbh and I say that as someone who has been in a similar position to yours. Contact and maintenance are two entirely separate issues.

Well maintenance can disappear at any time, that’s a fact. It’s not meant to be relied on hence why it no longer affects benefits, I’ve never got more than £7 maintenance so I’ve never relied on it.

@gallileofigaro

Put your children at the centre. You sound obsessed and money grabbing tbh and I say that as someone who has been in a similar position to yours. Contact and maintenance are two entirely separate issues.

Obsessed and money grabbing?! Wow. Obsessed that I want my ex to be an example of what it is to be a responsible role model of a father to my kids? Obsessed about being able to provide for my children? Money grabbing from an ex who refuses to take any financial responsibility for his children? If that's what you mean then yes I 100% hold my hands up and say I'm obsessed and money grabbing.

YABU

@Happycat1212 makes a good point. Maintenance cannot be relied on...some women are putting their financial trust in their ex partner and that's a worrying and uncomfortable place to be.

Your ex sounds like a twat OP. I'm a stepmum and I would be appalled if my partner didnt provide for his children.

As he is refusing to give you what you're owed and there doesn't seem to be mu h you can do about it through CMS I would try a different route. E.g. tell him what the twins need. If they need new shoes and school uniform tell him you get the set for one twin and he needs to get the other set. That way if he's not wanting to give money to you directly he's still providing some things for your children. I understand this foesnt cover things like utility bills and food, hopefully he'll be made to back pay child support at some point. Also, when they can get back at doing activities get him to pay half. This way he cant say he cant contribute. People who are unemployed still have to cloth their children and he doesnt get a choice in this