Devastated DD denied special school

[Sendsystemsucks]

Will be appealing, but just another fight to be had.

DD is primary age dx ASD, ADHD, dyspraxia, dyslexia and language disorder. On a part time timetable. When in school DD parallel learns and spends 70% of her school time with her 1-1 in the hallway on her own. She has been known to hit, kick, bite, throw chairs and run off.

Apparantly mainstream can meet her needs and she doesn't need special school.

AIBU to think she needs special school?

The LA fight you every step of the way when it comes to getting appropriate education. Sadly It probably won’t be your last appeal . It’s pretty standard for them to push parents to appeal and tribunal and then back down. Been at this for over 20 years.

IPSEA is a great site with loads of information and template letters.

I know it’s hard but the “enemy” here is the LA, not the school who will generally be doing the best they can with no money, no resources and other children with varying degrees of needs.

I’ve been on the other side of this as a governor and it took permanent exclusion before any realistic alternative was found. The LA is the legally responsible entity - go straight after them and don’t let them try and pass the buck onto the school.

Be wary of any managed move process where the LA promises maxiumum support to a new mainstream, says a fresh start will help and says your child needs to 'fail' in two mainstream setttings before special can be considered anyway. We fell for that and it was horrendous and caused ptsd. If the issue is coping in big noisy classrooms. They dont become small and quiet by having a TA and following a routine.

@Creamcustards - what a complete load of rubbish!

My son would not cope in mainstream, it’s not a safe environment for a child that can’t communicate at all and is likely to run at every opportunity. He needs 2:1 support at all times. He shouts, jumps and flaps his arms around 80% of the time! Too many people scare the crap out of him! He’d be unsafe and terrified and other kids wouldn’t learn a thing !

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. People like you piss me right off! Judgemental and ignorant.

What the hell is wrong with your LA? That is ludicrous. I'd write a complaint to the LA about their handling of this and the detriment it is causing to DD then escalate to your Local Government Ombudsman if needed.

@lillylemons

This is what scares me about ds who is due to start reception in September he's way behind the children his age and he is no verbal. I know for sure a mainstream school won't be able to meet his needs. The ed phycologist has put in her report that she thinks he would benefit from a specialist provision because of his needs but getting s special needs provision local is going to be impossible they are full already. I have been encouraged to deffer him but I'm not going to do that.

This is where the problems exist.

EPs write "would benefit from"

When they should be writing "X will not manage to access a MS provision and needs small class sizes ........"

Because there is a clause somewhere in one of the Acts that basically says (paraphrased) it needs to be somewhere they can be educated and not the best place for their needs.

The LA's decision to name mainstream is just about saving funds and trying their luck. You will win a place at a specialist school on appeal if you go down the tribunal route.

The SEND system absolutely sucks! I'm about to embark an yet another tribunal for my child. So much time wasted fighting battles because the LA act unlawfully.

@itsgettingwierd - agree with that. Ehcp wording is vital. I found this and think it’s great!

This whole change of direction, back in the 70s, to close special schools and push children into mainstream schools was all about saving money, not helping children. It was cruel and neglectful. Forcing parents into a protracted, expensive battle for years, just to get a safe environment for their child is absolutely disgusting IMO.
OP, you have had some good advice. Keep going, I wish you lots of luck.

thank you, will get more forceful with the school about having her full time.

It's not forceful. They MUST take her.
Simply email this

Dear HT,

After the recent decision by the LA that school can meet Xs needs she will be attending full time as of 26/4/2021.

I am agreeing to one weeks part time only to give the school time to prepare as this is in Xs best interests.

In future if school cannot accommodate X for a full day I will require exclusion paperwork for the period, stating clearly the reasons for exclusion, and a reintegration meeting on her return as per educational law.

Thank you in advance for your efforts.

Regards

Xxxxxx

If you have a good relationship with school you can speak to them about why you've sent it (evidence), why your doing it (evidence) but make sure this is face to face or phone and not in writing.

Back sure everything you need to evidence is written and if you have meetings email to confirm what was discussed and what will be happening next.

Good luck. It shouldn't be this hard.

When LA were refusing an EHCP assessment for my son and we went to tribunal the judge asked if la was sure they wanted to go ahead (as ds didn't have a school place agreed - was on a trial that was extended because of him being a challenge!)
The judge actually rolled his eyes and we spent 4 hours listening to la and school he'd had a breakdown at and couldn't attend say how they could meet needs

No surprise we won!

As a specialist in learning disabilities i am often horrified at some of the practices i see in mainstream schools.

@Viviennemary

Is home schooling her not a possibility if the main stream school isn't suitable.

Why should this mother take responsibility for her child's education?

The onus is on the government to provide an appropriate setting.

Sadly there are not enough of them which is why my 2 children are educated at home without the benefit of an appropriate peer group and being at school. The LA pay for that education because it is not my fault that there are not appropriate schools.

Your comment is extremely ableist.

Good luck OP as a country we should be ashamed of the way we treat SEN children and their parents.

Cream custards

There's plenty of information on the internet - I suggest you spend your time educating yourself via google and less spouting such shite on MN 🙄

Unfortunately this is what years of austerity and underfunding public services have got us. Thank you Tory government.

@Creamcustards

Honestly, I am anti special schools. All children are members of society, speaking personally I am a passionate advocate of inclusion. I would direct your energy and love for your child towards making sure she (and all who come after her) gets adequate support within her mainstream school alongside all other children her age, rather than being segregated for her difficulties.

Well that's nice but the setting of mainstream schools just aren't appropriate for all SEN children, they are large, loud and overwhelming. Many children with complex and particularly those with sensory Processing Disorder can be traumatised by those settings.

My eldest is extremely bright but can't cope in mainstream, it made him want to kill himself.

There are no schools for him locally as he doesn't have learning difficulties so he has to be at home with no peer group.

@itsgettingweird we had the same only it was even worse the school couldn't give any detail as to how just assurances that they could. Dd's EHCP was going to come with £49k funding so I think they had their eyes on the money rather than giving any thought to my dd's needs in all of this. I'm not sure the school had much say my solicitor said that they would have been pressured to say yes but I held them as responsible as the LA in delaying my daughter's entry into independent specialist so pressed a formal complaint that will be used as basis of next Ofsted inspection as it raised serious concerns about leadership and management as well as getting an LGO ruling and compensation from LA. I like to think that both school and LA got the message I was annoyed

@Creamcustards are you on crack?
How many mainstream schools have the funding to provide for Sen needs?
Hydrotherapy?
Sensory rooms?
Sensory gardens?
Rebound therapy?
Physio therapy?
Consultant appointments?
Psychology?
Bathrooms with hoists
Lifts
Level thresh doors
Safety doors
Not to mention classes of less that 10 with a teacher and 2 TAs.
Touch screen computers for every class
Widespread makaton/bsl training
Pecs training
The list goes on
Mainstream schools can't afford pencils.

My LA found a place for my son overnight after originally saying that there wouldn’t be one available for months.

I had asked them to explain/justify certain areas of his proposed provision in writing, including the rationale of how their proposal could meet his needs. I think our case worker also pushed hard for a place. I’m guessing the base reason was that they would have lost at tribunal and that they didn’t want to have to keep engaging. Unfortunately, you have to be tenacious and it’s really tiring and time consuming.

Also, you need to make it clear that you believe only the specialist school can meet your DD’s needs.

If they think they are having an interaction where they are persuading you why their proposal is adequate, they will approach your case differently. If your interactions all centre around your understanding of the law and why they are falling short in this case, the conversation changes.

Ignore posters with unhelpful suggestions. Why on earth should our children be home schooled or denied adequate facilities as a first reaction? You don’t need to respond to that.

Mainstream schools COULD have the specialist services that a child in that school needs (my son doesn't need a hoist, any of the mobility aids, an OT comes in for him, every school should be physically accessible unless you think a bright child in a wheelchair should be in specialist school). Mainstream schools should not be loud and overwhelming, again unless you are proposing that all deaf children and those with even mild sensory needs should be in specialist settings.
The main needs he has which we are working on is an experienced TA (no locks on the doors preventing a mainstream school employing these) and small/reduced class size (some mainstream schools have these and those with a resource base will have that option whenever the child needs).
My LEA operates on a model of dump all children with SEN in the same generic specialist school which is equally wrong.
A child who is 2 years behind the NC will not be alone at their academic level in a mainstream school. Why isn't she being taught in a small group with others at her level for part of the time?

Mainstream education suits a few, it's ok for a chunk, appalling for many and absolutely unsuitable for others.

Not sure how some can be in denial to the reality!

I have no advice for you but I sympathise and absolutely agree that YANBU.

I used to be a TA, and have worked with two children with very similar needs and behaviour to your DD.

In the first case, the head teacher was very inflexible and unsympathetic to the fact that the child simply couldn't be managed by the methods she (the HT) thought I should be using. I got told off for not succeeding with this child, and given a sideways move with shorter hours while they tried a different TA. Surprise surprise - that TA didn't do any better because it was not the right environment for the child. Soon yet another TA got involved - but eventually the parents moved the child to a different (mainstream) school because they, too, were not happy with the way the child was not making progress and they were still getting called in by the teacher regularly to talk about incidents - all avoidable if the child had been in the right environment. I'd be very surprised if the child did any better in the new mainstream school and I think everyone except the head teacher agreed that they would have been better off in a specialist school or unit.

The second one (in a different school) was very similar, except that it was the class teacher who had unrealistic expectations about how they could be managed, and the head teacher was wonderful and very sympathetic. When I told him I was leaving he said he couldn't have done the job I was going and the only way he could imagine the child managing very much longer in mainstream was if they had not 1-1, but 2-1 support! (Even then, it would have involved a lot of time outside the classroom.) That HT absolutely agreed that the best place for the child would have been in a specialist school or unit.

Long story short - in both cases the parents wanted the child to be in mainstream when some or all of the school staff involved could see it wasn't working. It feels doubly unfair that a parent who is entirely realistic about that, and willing to fight for a specialist place, can't get one, while the child and other children suffer, all for lack of funding and/or the LA's unhelpful attitude.

"Mainstream schools COULD have the specialist services that a child in that school needs"

For some children. There are children who are pushed towards special school who could with the right provisions, stay in mainstream school. But not all. It would be horrific for some.

@VanillaAndOrange we want our DS to be in mainstream because there isn't a suitable specialist school but I honestly think that none could exist, because he needs to be with NT peers and to be in a mixed sex setting.
So we are not doing it to be awkward or unrealistic but because it's the only option that could meet what he needs.
We are currently looking for one with small class size and that will actually take DS.

@Spikeyball

"Mainstream schools COULD have the specialist services that a child in that school needs"

For some children. There are children who are pushed towards special school who could with the right provisions, stay in mainstream school. But not all. It would be horrific for some.

Yes, the Not Fine in School Facebook page shows that there are 1000s of children who are not coping in mainstream.

Some may well be OK if provisions are put in place in a timely manner. But they are not due to the unfair SEN process leaving many children traumatised and unable to attend any setting.