Devastated DD denied special school

[Sendsystemsucks]

Will be appealing, but just another fight to be had.

DD is primary age dx ASD, ADHD, dyspraxia, dyslexia and language disorder. On a part time timetable. When in school DD parallel learns and spends 70% of her school time with her 1-1 in the hallway on her own. She has been known to hit, kick, bite, throw chairs and run off.

Apparantly mainstream can meet her needs and she doesn't need special school.

AIBU to think she needs special school?

Ger a specialist sen lawyer

She’s on a part time timetable with one to one in a corridor- they are NOT meeting her needs - your name is apt

Yes ask for mediation and get a lawyer

Terrible for you and your lo OP. They should bring back schools that were specifically for children with mild/moderate difficulties, because there are far too many vulnerable children being chucked in to mainstream schools when it’s too much for them.

Yes they are more able that those children with severe/profound disabilities, but they fall between the gaps and often a mainstream school isn’t best for them either.

Makes me so mad and sad that so many are forced to go to mainstream schools when they just won’t be able to manage.

Hope your LO gets a place x

It’s sad for her! We have a really large nurture department and as a result we keep getting more kids whose needs can’t be met. We don’t have specialist staff, we have poorly trained TAs that are good at keeping “naughty” kids in a room, not good at teaching them. We are regarded as being good with SEND students because we have so many in school full time but the aren’t receiving an education like they would in a specialist setting. Some have gone backwards but due to staffing there’s nothing we can do about it at the moment.

How about a base in a mainstream school. If they arent getting what they need in a class in mainstream they may need a base rather than a special school

Oh school think it is absurd as we do that they are able to meet needs. She is in the corridor because she won't enter the classroom. She usually does PE, art and music in the classroom and in parallel to the others not with them.

Places are non-existant for special school.

We find the more time in school the less she will enter the classroom. On a full time timetable she was doing 100% of her time in the corridor or in a ball in the corner

We went through similar although my daughter was not on a part time timetable. The school had enough by year 5 and she was permanently excluded. The PRU was full and the LEA actually suggested we home Ed with a couple of hours tutoring a week. We refused and a place was found at special school. You have to hit rock bottom in my experience. Out poor children have to suffer terribly before that get the help they need.

@tableflowerss that appears to be the issue. She hasn't got severe enough learning disability for specialist.

@sweettoffee there is one school with a base (10 places and 13 already) within 75 minutes

Who do you have supporting you? You really need someone who can advocate for you with the school. If she is in a corridor with an adult, they’re not meeting her needs as she’s being internally excluded. I would write to the school and tell them you expect her to be in her own class on a full timetable. If they refuse, explain that if they are refusing, they will have to exclude her. Formally. That will get the LA sitting up and listening!

They should bring back schools that were specifically for children with mild/moderate difficulties,

These schools still exist. It's difficult to get a place, and you have to be at least a year behind academically, but not severe learning difficulties.

This is what scares me about ds who is due to start reception in September he's way behind the children his age and he is no verbal. I know for sure a mainstream school won't be able to meet his needs. The ed phycologist has put in her report that she thinks he would benefit from a specialist provision because of his needs but getting s special needs provision local is going to be impossible they are full already.

I have been encouraged to deffer him but I'm not going to do that.

@Soontobe60 I believe sendiass will be taking us on to help, we have met their threshold for ongoing support, small mercies!

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre she is 2 years+ behind

That's ridiculous. If the mainstream school can't provide for your daughter full time, it isn't able to meet her needs.

You REALLY need to start the process of getting at least an independent ed psych report to support you. You need to appeal against the contents of the EHCP as well as the placement, because the school has to be capable of delivering the support set out in section F and the LA has probably written F in vague terms which could be delivered by any school. So you need properly detailed and specific provision in F that the mainstream school can't deliver, e.g. small classes and specialist teachers.

SOS SEN did a webinar the other day on appealing which is still available. Have a look on their Facebook page for details.

OP contact IPSEA and SOSSEN as well they have advocates who can support you. Sendiass can be a mixed bag, in our LA they are really poor, no doubt because they are funded by the LA and don't like to bite the hand that feeds them. You will get independent law based advice from IPSEA and SOSSEN. Don't be afraid to appeal parents win a huge percentage, in our LA it is almost 99% even though our LA routinely use barristers against unrepresented parents. The system is awful but if you fight you will most likely get what you want for your child.

Might you qualify for legal aid, by any chance?

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre

They should bring back schools that were specifically for children with mild/moderate difficulties,

These schools still exist. It's difficult to get a place, and you have to be at least a year behind academically, but not severe learning difficulties.

Where I live there aren’t any in the county as far as I’m aware. There used to be, years ago but that was closed down, I assume down to funding.

Apparently 1 in 6 children have done type of SEN so it’s beyond belief they don’t have more of these schools...

Really feel for you Op as pp say how is mainstream meeting her needs on a pt timetable, outside of the classroom, away from her peers 70% of the time?

Hi there,

So sorry to hear of the issues you are experiencing. I am a special educational needs practitioner and have an independent assessment/ support agency. I have PM’d you. Happy to discuss and guide you (absolutely not touting for business - just very passionate about supporting young people with SEND)

As others have posted, part time timetables are unlawful, unless they are short term working towards reintegration - which clearly isn't the case here, whether or not parents agree. Alongside appealing the EHCP write to the LA informing them unless DD is provided with a full time education you will be forced in to Judicial Review proceedings. At the same time tell school DD will be attending full time and you won't be picking her up early unless you are given formal exclusion paperwork.

I agree, contact IPSEA or SOSSEN.

Which local authority are you in OP? Go for appeal but also speak with Senco and write a letter threatening (with intent) SENA with tribunal.

@Nith I don't fully understand whether we would be eligible for LA

@10brokengreenbottles then the LA force school to take her full time and she either launches a chair at a child or is hysterical in a ball in the corner of the hall. It feels no real solution.

School have said for 2 years now she needs specialist, the LA don't want to know. She hasn't accessed full time this school year

It is appalling, so many special schools were closed in the name of inclusion...whilst mainstream moved further away from a model of education that could be deemed inclusive. It has left a system with an enormous chasm into which many children fall. Children who are 'too able' for specialist settings and yet who struggle daily in a mainstream setting, often being less independent than they would in specialist, as they have to rely so heavily on the supposed fix all of 1-1 support (sometimes spread thinly, or inappropriate to the needs of the child) in order to cope with a culture and environment which is the very opposite of what is needed for the child to flourish

It has taken us years to finally get ds into a special school for secondary - a child who was non verbal when he started, in nappies until 8 and who has struggled throughout school. We were constantly told that ds should be in the mainstream classes, despite him being completely isolated, relying heavily on a string of unsuitable TAs, years behind his peers, unable to communicate and suffering severe stomach issues. This was in a school with a resource base and supposedly the model of inclusivity. It has been hell. We were finally taken seriously when ds became very ill, but by this time our relationship with the school had completely broken down.

The whole system needs to be turned inside out.

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre

They should bring back schools that were specifically for children with mild/moderate difficulties,

These schools still exist. It's difficult to get a place, and you have to be at least a year behind academically, but not severe learning difficulties.

Not in some authorities. The authority I worked for closed all its schools for mild to moderate learning difficulties and put all our kids back into mainstream. Then turned them into schools for severe and complex difficulties.

You can check if you qualify for Legal Aid here
You need to insist the school has her full time and they formally exclude her each time they can't manage her in school for a full day. These exclusions are evidence then that the school can't meet needs.