Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

Reintroduction of licenses, like for guns?

I love this idea. For all pets.

I suppose the issue is how they will work... because it's fairly easy to acquire a pet off the record, if you want to.

I love dogs & grew up with them. I have been chased & bitten by a dog but not my own ones & one of my dogs was attacked by another dog. Dogs are like all animals, unpredictable.

There was a serious dog attack in the town I live in a couple of weeks ago (serious enough for the victim to need surgery) and it actually terrifies me to think this could have been my kids.

@knocke

No my dog is trained. He has no interest in other people or dogs. If he did I wouldn't let him off.

Literally everyone says this about their dog until something does happen.

He is a collie. His focus is on me and his ball 100%. I can give him the down command and he drops like a stone. Even halfway through chasing his ball. I would not let him off if I thought he would fail to recall. Dick head owners who cannot control their dogs piss me off too. I am doing nothing wrong letting my dog off where I do. No laws or rules being broken.

Muzzles on all dogs when outside the home would solve most of the serious issues.

And dog parks, without muzzles so they can exercise and play.

I never said you were breaking any laws, nonetheless the vast majority of owners do not think their dog is capable of attacking another dog or human until it happens.

[quote Poorlykitten]@ToughLoveLDN but it’s not just these kind or people and it’s not just these kinds of breeds. The dog that attacked the seal, although very different incident was also horrific, was owned by a very naice ‘lawyer type’ wasn’t it? Can be any dog and any irresponsible dog owner from all walks of life.[/quote]
@Poorlykitten that’s literally what I was saying though... it can be anyone and any dog it just seems that it’s always these kinds of dogs being blasted in the media because people that think they are hard get them and don’t bother.

I have had many different breeds of dogs and I just don’t think it’s the dogs fault. I blame bad owners, every dog regardless of breed is going to have its own personality. But it’s up to the owner to train their dog properly

@knocke

I never said you were breaking any laws, nonetheless the vast majority of owners do not think their dog is capable of attacking another dog or human until it happens.

The issue is, the vast majority of dogs owners can not read their dogs very well. So these 'he is so friendly' 'he has never done anything like this before' have probably missed a lot of signs and cues.

And I have no doubt the owner of the 2 dogs that killed this poor woman had every idea his dogs were aggressive

Bull breeds are very strong and powerful dogs, they are also fiercely loyal, and that can be dangerous if they get into the wrong hands. Unfortunately, you get lots of bad people who want dogs to look and act mean. They are used as trophy dogs.

It's absolutely awful what has happened to that woman, but it's the owners fault.

@ArcheryAnnie

If we could ban irresponsible and violent tossers from keeping dogs and socialising them to be aggressive. that would be great, but we can't.

Why can't we? One proven incident of injury from a dog to a human, or savaging of livestock, and the owner loses the right to own a dog in perpetuity.

I think it might be difficult to come up with legal definition of "irresponsible and violent tossers", although I entirely agree that they shouldn't be allowed to own dogs.

I think there should be much tighter regulation of how dogs are acquired. In my imaginary world, anyone who wanted a dog would have to undertake an approved course of training in how to train and socialise dogs before being granted a permit to own one, and anyone who sold or gave a dog without seeing evidence of such a permit would be hit with at least a heavy fine. And if all dogs bred were microchipped and registered to an owner so that their provenance could be established and owners identified, far fewer twats would be breeding dogs as a way of making money, and irresponsible owners would be easily identified. It would work a bit like vehicle log books and driving licences.

I'm a huge dog lover, had dogs for 33 years and, while they were far from perfect, they never hurt anyone.

My last two were lakeland terriers, one of the rare breeds, and I spent 45 minutes on the phone being interviewed by the secretary of the breed club before she would even give me the contact details of a couple of breeders who might have puppies. I got my second one after being recommended as a suitable owner by a highly regarded breeder.

I put so much work into making sure they were socialised with everything they were likely to encounter: children, horses, cattle, crowded places, kids in buggies, people on bicycles etc; they both went to puppy classes and training them was really hard work (they are highly intelligent and very willful, which is a challenging combination), but it really paid off. They were far from perfect, and I had to keep them on a lead anywhere near sheep, even if the sheep were in an adjoining field (one of them found a spot where they could get under the stock wire once, the little fucker, so I made sure that never happened again).

Even a small dog like that could be a nightmare in the wrong hands. There is no such thing as a "safe" breed, I know a French bulldog which is an absolute bastard and a cockerpoo that hates anyone wearing a hat and will growl and lunge at them.

It's not a dog problem, it's an owner problem and, to some extent, a breeder problem. All the while people can make huge amounts of money from breeding a litter of mongrels and selling them to idiots, it won't stop.

These tragic stories crop up time and time again and still nothing gets done.

I'm so sad and angry about what happened to that poor lady.

I am doing nothing wrong letting my dog off where I do. No laws or rules being broken

Yet, LST.
But the current level of dog/public negative interaction will push changes through. That’s how many reactive laws come into being, and lockdown acquisitions are going to accelerate this.

@ArmchairTraveller

I am doing nothing wrong letting my dog off where I do. No laws or rules being broken

Yet, LST.
But the current level of dog/public negative interaction will push changes through. That’s how many reactive laws come into being, and lockdown acquisitions are going to accelerate this.

Hopefully my dog will be dead by the time any changes come in. It won't be overnight.

You can make any breed of dog vicious, so banning breeds isn't necessarily going to be a good solution

Lol lol lol damn those vicious chihuahuas

(I mean, they are vicious, but who cares?)

There are 5.5 million dogs in the UK, and they kill 3-5 people per year. The risk of being killed by a dog are only marginally higher than being killed by lightning (2 per year)

Arguments like this are seriously disingenuous . We can't do a great deal about preventing lightning but dog ownership (apart from in a very small number of cases e.g. guide dogs) is optional!!
Yes it should be far more regulated.

@littlepattilou

Yes it's awful. I wondered what was going on in Rowley Regis with the police presence around. It was all over social media earlier but I wasn't sure what had happened.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-56617182

Tragic thing to happen.

And yes, I agree, it's about time much stricter rules were made for keeping certain dogs.

These 2 dogs weren't border collies or red setters were they?

They were pit bulls.

The bloody dogs need banning from the country. Every one that is born now needs sterilising at birth so they can become obsolete. (And several other 'dangerous dogs' can go with it too.)

Some dogs should NOT be in residential homes and residential areas.

I know it's not the dog's fault blah blah blah........... It's the owner's fault, but it's ALWAYS the same type of person who owns them! ALWAYS.

Yes this, it’s pretty much always thread kind of horrible dogs and pretty much always the same kind of scumbag owner.

Maybe it’s not the dog’s fault per se but that doesn’t make them suitable to be kept as pets. High time they were banned.

I think the entitlement of some dog owners is frankly unbelievable. There’s was a thread on here about some sheep getting worried and all a huge percentage of the dog owners were all ‘ but it won’t stop me going in to livestock fields because that’s my right’ Well, actually it isn’t your right to do that unless the dog is under very strict control’ If tighter restrictions on dog ownership mean less possibility of atrocities like this happening then I don’t understand why you would not be all for it.

The statistics on hospital admissions for dog attacks are always an eye-opener - Vet Times - Dog bite hospital admissions - 8000 a year

'Lead author John Tulloch, an epidemiologist at the University of Liverpool, said: “....Our study presents just the tip of the iceberg, as it only includes injuries severe enough to require hospital admission.”'

Children aged 14 or under made up a quarter of the figures. That's 2000 children a year with dog attack injuries severe enough to warrant hospital admission.

"Why can't we? One proven incident of injury from a dog to a human, or savaging of livestock, and the owner loses the right to own a dog in perpetuity."

Because those people who own the status dogs are above the law - not just in their dog owning but their driving without licences, theft, drink driving, antisocial behaviour etc. Ban them from owning a dog and it will make no difference - it will be 'me mums dog' or a stray that just came in and there will be no consequences except to the dog just the same as they just keep driving their cars with no insurance.

@LST

OP how would me keeping my dog on a lead and paying a licence fee have stopped 2 aggressive dogs escaping their garden and attacking this poor woman?

Well it wouldn’t have because he probably wouldn’t have been the type to get a licence either. So you’d need a total crackdown too ...

And I have no doubt the owner of the 2 dogs that killed this poor woman had every idea his dogs were aggressive

He might have known but all the people who leave their young dc with a dog or family members dog who end up getting bitten likely had no idea otherwise they wouldn't have left the dc unattended.

@ApplesinmyPocket

The statistics on hospital admissions for dog attacks are always an eye-opener - Vet Times - Dog bite hospital admissions - 8000 a year

'Lead author John Tulloch, an epidemiologist at the University of Liverpool, said: “....Our study presents just the tip of the iceberg, as it only includes injuries severe enough to require hospital admission.”'

Children aged 14 or under made up a quarter of the figures. That's 2000 children a year with dog attack injuries severe enough to warrant hospital admission.

Most of these will be dogs known to them..family dogs that the parents have let their kids maul their whole life and then one day the dog snapped

@Poorlykitten

I think the entitlement of some dog owners is frankly unbelievable. There’s was a thread on here about some sheep getting worried and all a huge percentage of the dog owners were all ‘ but it won’t stop me going in to livestock fields because that’s my right’ Well, actually it isn’t your right to do that unless the dog is under very strict control’ If tighter restrictions on dog ownership mean less possibility of atrocities like this happening then I don’t understand why you would not be all for it.

Again, around livestock dogs should be on a lead. Even though I know my dog around sheep (he was off a sheep farm) I keep him on a lead if we go though a field with lifestock.

The issue is, the vast majority of dogs owners can not read their dogs very well. So these 'he is so friendly' 'he has never done anything like this before' have probably missed a lot of signs and cues.

The cocker spaniel that bit my leg had perfect recall, never hurt a fly blah, blah, blah. Same for the Alsatian that bit my puppy. If only their owners were as knowledgeable as you.

@tored I have a staffie cross and have been approached by many people asking if he is a pit bull. I've had people cross the road to avoid him. Yes, he looks tough (and I can assure you that my arse is fully covered at all times) but he has been beaten up by cats, a swan and two chihuahuas. Each time he has yelped and tried to escape by hiding behind me! When DS was 18 months old my exH had a lurcher that he used to take to work with him. One day he came home and the dog launched himself at DS and bit his face. I insisted that dog was put down the same evening. No animal can be trusted but don't assume they are all viscous from the way they look. A school friend had her shihzu put down because it attacked a child.