Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

[Flaxmeadow]

They were pit bulls

Probably

Its terrifying. There is so much illegal dog activity going on

Without a doubt

[Furries]

I got to page 35 and don’t think I can go on any more.

This thread is so depressing. A supposed nation of dog lovers, doing the usual breed/big dog bashing.

At the crux of it, there are so many factors to consider. Shit/backyard breeders and puppy farms mean that good “stock” isn’t guaranteed. Shit owners - either getting “status” breeds and encouraging their traits, or getting “toy’ breeds and thinking they don’t need to bother with proper training.

I have a giant breed, bred for being companion dogs. I knew from the outset that I wanted her to have manners - not because she’s a “dangerous” breed, but because if she was bolshy then her size could unwittingly cause damage. I’ve pretty much always had her in lead, apart from a few occasions on large and quiet beaches. If I see a dog/owner in the distance on lead, then I automatically put her lead on - as am assuming that the other owner has dog on lead for a reason.

The breed/size bashing on here is disturbing to me. My view has always been to treat all dogs as dogs - they all have the potential to turn.

Generally, kids obviously love dogs. It can be such a “natural” instinct for them to bowl over to a cute/magnificent small or large breed. One of the best things parents can do is try to install some canine respect into children - ask the owner “is “he/she friendly/ok to be approached/stroked etc). And, if the owner says yes, a gentle stroke under the chin with the back of your palm is much better than the “whacking’ on the top of a dogs head.

[Furries]

There have been a number of posts on here digging at large breeds. Would be interested to see what those posters can show regarding fatalities from:

St Bernards
Newfoundlands
Great Danes
Irish Wolfhounds
Bernese Mountain Dogs
Leonbergers
Pyrenean Mountain Dogs
Sarplaninnacs

These are some of the largest dogs out there - there are more, but the above are more commonly known in the UK. I’d be interested to see what the numbers are re these breeds.

Alsations, Rotties etc are medium sized. And are mostly blooming awesome. So don’t tar them as “bad big dogs” - there are plenty, as listed above, that are big but not bad.

The sad thing is, we will never have a “perfect storm” of dog ownership - for me, this would be: proven provenance re parents, proper health checks of parents, only letting pups go at appropriate time, new owners choosing breed best suited to lifestyle, new owners doing consistent training no matter what size of dog, owners not “babying” their dogs” and this list could go on for ages.

With this (not common) attack, leash laws wouldn’t have made a difference. But I do think that dogs should be leashed unless they are in a totally controlled environment - am fed up of other dogs ‘ooh, they’re just friendly” bounding over when their owners are half a field away.

[k1233]

The easiest way to reduce dog bites in the home is to stop children hurting animals. Before biting the dogs would have given very many signals, including moving away and growling, to say they were not comfortable. You just have to look at the hideous "funny" children and dogs videos on YouTube and Facebook. It's only a matter if time before those dogs bite.

If you stop a dig growling when they are unhappy, you are making a huge mistake as that is one of the ways they communicate they are struggling with the current interaction.

Children need to be supervised around dogs because CHILDREN HURT DOGS and children repeatedly do things to dogs that the dogs don't like. This is why dogs bite. If you want your child to be able to push, prod, poke, pull on a dog, buy it a stuffed toy. Don't buy a sentinent being that will complain when it gets hurt. Educate your children on how to appropriately interact with dogs and not hurt them.

[Pomegranatespompom]

People have a right to walk in a park without being jumped at by a dog - some owners don’t seem to understand this. It’s disappointing.

[gimmemoore]

@Furries

There have been a number of posts on here digging at large breeds. Would be interested to see what those posters can show regarding fatalities from:

St Bernards
Newfoundlands
Great Danes
Irish Wolfhounds
Bernese Mountain Dogs
Leonbergers
Pyrenean Mountain Dogs
Sarplaninnacs

These are some of the largest dogs out there - there are more, but the above are more commonly known in the UK. I’d be interested to see what the numbers are re these breeds.

Alsations, Rotties etc are medium sized. And are mostly blooming awesome. So don’t tar them as “bad big dogs” - there are plenty, as listed above, that are big but not bad.

The sad thing is, we will never have a “perfect storm” of dog ownership - for me, this would be: proven provenance re parents, proper health checks of parents, only letting pups go at appropriate time, new owners choosing breed best suited to lifestyle, new owners doing consistent training no matter what size of dog, owners not “babying” their dogs” and this list could go on for ages.

With this (not common) attack, leash laws wouldn’t have made a difference. But I do think that dogs should be leashed unless they are in a totally controlled environment - am fed up of other dogs ‘ooh, they’re just friendly” bounding over when their owners are half a field away.

Part 1..

[gimmemoore]

@Furries

There have been a number of posts on here digging at large breeds. Would be interested to see what those posters can show regarding fatalities from:

St Bernards
Newfoundlands
Great Danes
Irish Wolfhounds
Bernese Mountain Dogs
Leonbergers
Pyrenean Mountain Dogs
Sarplaninnacs

These are some of the largest dogs out there - there are more, but the above are more commonly known in the UK. I’d be interested to see what the numbers are re these breeds.

Alsations, Rotties etc are medium sized. And are mostly blooming awesome. So don’t tar them as “bad big dogs” - there are plenty, as listed above, that are big but not bad.

The sad thing is, we will never have a “perfect storm” of dog ownership - for me, this would be: proven provenance re parents, proper health checks of parents, only letting pups go at appropriate time, new owners choosing breed best suited to lifestyle, new owners doing consistent training no matter what size of dog, owners not “babying” their dogs” and this list could go on for ages.

With this (not common) attack, leash laws wouldn’t have made a difference. But I do think that dogs should be leashed unless they are in a totally controlled environment - am fed up of other dogs ‘ooh, they’re just friendly” bounding over when their owners are half a field away.

Part 2...

[gimmemoore]

@Furries

There have been a number of posts on here digging at large breeds. Would be interested to see what those posters can show regarding fatalities from:

St Bernards
Newfoundlands
Great Danes
Irish Wolfhounds
Bernese Mountain Dogs
Leonbergers
Pyrenean Mountain Dogs
Sarplaninnacs

These are some of the largest dogs out there - there are more, but the above are more commonly known in the UK. I’d be interested to see what the numbers are re these breeds.

Alsations, Rotties etc are medium sized. And are mostly blooming awesome. So don’t tar them as “bad big dogs” - there are plenty, as listed above, that are big but not bad.

The sad thing is, we will never have a “perfect storm” of dog ownership - for me, this would be: proven provenance re parents, proper health checks of parents, only letting pups go at appropriate time, new owners choosing breed best suited to lifestyle, new owners doing consistent training no matter what size of dog, owners not “babying” their dogs” and this list could go on for ages.

With this (not common) attack, leash laws wouldn’t have made a difference. But I do think that dogs should be leashed unless they are in a totally controlled environment - am fed up of other dogs ‘ooh, they’re just friendly” bounding over when their owners are half a field away.

Think that covers that list?

There may be many of these large breeds that CAN be soft and CAN be trained but all it takes is for something to push them and they have the capability to do so much damage. As proven.

[AIMD]

@furries I wish all dog owners were as considerate and sensible as you. When I go walking with my kids around our village we constantly have dogs running up to them. Then don’t like it because we are not dog owners so they’re not used to them. The owners that allow it, saying “don’t worry she’s friendly” are so annoying. I really appreciate when people either easily recall their dog and walk on by or take time to call the dog back to them and ask if the children want to say hello.

Unfortunately I think it’s similar to other issues some people are considerate and some aren’t, be they dog owners or not.

[Peacocking]

The discussion around dogs and livestock does make me roll my eyes. Almost everyone who bitches around dogs worrying livestock/causing sheep to abort is a hypocrite. Those same animals are killed horribly within a few weeks of birth when these same people pay for their deaths. The only concern for most people is that they live long enough to get to the slaughterhouse so they can be killed, dismembered and put onto a plate. No-one really cares about their stress and fear then.

I dont eat them BTW. I don't want to see them being stressed by dogs, people or the biodiversity continuing to be decimated by their breeding and rearing.

As far as dangerous dogs go in general, I really have no idea why anyone needs particular breeds or large dogs. I'm sure most individual dogs are lovely, but so are smaller dopier little types. I'd happily have a permitted list of breeds, with stringent rules and registration in place for those that can demonstrate a need for any large or higher risk breeds. In my life I've had dogs of most shapes and size from chihuahua to newfoundland. Loved them all. Definitely didn't NEED the big breeds and would have loved whatever dog I'd had just as much.

[Theunamedcat]

@k1233

The easiest way to reduce dog bites in the home is to stop children hurting animals. Before biting the dogs would have given very many signals, including moving away and growling, to say they were not comfortable. You just have to look at the hideous "funny" children and dogs videos on YouTube and Facebook. It's only a matter if time before those dogs bite.

If you stop a dig growling when they are unhappy, you are making a huge mistake as that is one of the ways they communicate they are struggling with the current interaction.

Children need to be supervised around dogs because CHILDREN HURT DOGS and children repeatedly do things to dogs that the dogs don't like. This is why dogs bite. If you want your child to be able to push, prod, poke, pull on a dog, buy it a stuffed toy. Don't buy a sentinent being that will complain when it gets hurt. Educate your children on how to appropriately interact with dogs and not hurt them.

A lot of children hurt in dog attacks are baby's we are talking weeks old just what are they supposed to have done?

Some dog attacks do come out if nowhere we have a pub on a hill the beer garden is above the public footpath a dog jumped out of the beer garden around 10ft plus drop to a couple doing nothing but walking with there baby dozens of pushchairs had passed that day but this one he took a dislike too he seized the baby and shook it like a ragdoll killing it the baby did nothing to provoke the attack the dog owners claimed this dog had never been aggressive had been around children babies everything no issues there was no medical reason why it happened either the only thing that would have maybe made a difference that day would have been a leash law all dogs to be leashed in public

[Poorlykitten]

You can eat meat and still care about the welfare of animals before they are slaughtered. I’m actually a vegetarian btw, but still believe this to be true. Doesn’t negate the fact they deserve not to be chased, worried, bitten or attacked while alive.

[FOJN]

the only thing that would have maybe made a difference that day would have been a leash law all dogs to be leashed in public

This story is horrific but it proves to me the problem is owners and a lead law would not have made any difference. A responsible owner would have had their dog on a lead in that situation and the pub owners could easily implement that rule without a change in the law. Even if a lead law had existed the dog owners could argue that the beer garden is private premises and not public space so would not be covered by the legislation, its up to the landlords to insist on dogs being on leads and I think they should.

[SuperCaliFragalistic]

@theunamedcat that is a truly horrific story. I would be more than happy to see all domestic dog ownership banned. Only properly trained, working dogs allowed. I'm sure it's a peculiarly British thing, the desire to keep a creature capable of routinely killing and maiming children in their homes. You really don't see so many people defending their right to own a potentially dangerous animal in other countries.

[bagpuss90]

I have two well trained lovely dogs. I’d never leave them on their own with children though - because they are dogs. I think most dog owners are responsible. I’ve had a few bad experiences when I’ve been out walking them. It’s always the same moronic type of person walking a dog they shouldn’t have. I doubt they have any regard for the law so sadly any new legislation wouldn’t make any difference. I doubt they’d comply - they have no respect for anyone or anything least of all their dogs

[Veterinari]

A lot of children hurt in dog attacks are baby's we are talking weeks old just what are they supposed to have done?

No they aren't
Most are children under 15.
Hyperbole helps no one.

And it's not about having 'done' anything Attacks on babies are generally driven by different motivations that attacks on older children. Dogs do not automatically recognise babies as 'people' - they don't look move or behave like other people.
Understanding dog behaviour is key to safeguarding against attacks, and people who have dogs that are likely to attack are generally pretty awful at doing that.

If the dog managed to cross the beer garden, scale a wall and jump down into a footpath it doesn't sound like the owners were particularly responsible in the first place. I'm surprised the pub owners don't require dogs to be on leads.

Where was this attack @Theunamedcat ? It doesn't seem to appear in any stats.

[bagpuss90]

This was an awful thing -but we shouldn’t lose sight of the many positive things dogs bring to many peoples lives. We can’t ban domestic dog ownership 🙄. Also its not just the British that own dogs for gods sake

[Veterinari]

[quote SuperCaliFragalistic]@theunamedcat that is a truly horrific story. I would be more than happy to see all domestic dog ownership banned. Only properly trained, working dogs allowed. I'm sure it's a peculiarly British thing, the desire to keep a creature capable of routinely killing and maiming children in their homes. You really don't see so many people defending their right to own a potentially dangerous animal in other countries.[/quote]
Yeah. Almost no other dogs in other countries

Guess you didn't bother reading the dog population stats linked earlier then. Or any actual data.

There's so much uninformed opinion on this thread

[Sundances]

Were the dogs neutered. This makes a difference I think. We had working dogs when I was a child, 60s, OMG the dog fights were scary - don't see that now but I suspect they were breeding dogs and so not neutered. No one alive to ask now.

[Veterinari]

@Sundances

Were the dogs neutered. This makes a difference I think. We had working dogs when I was a child, 60s, OMG the dog fights were scary - don't see that now but I suspect they were breeding dogs and so not neutered. No one alive to ask now.

Yes you're right, neutering INCREASES the risks of fear aggression in many dogs

Weirdly enough removing sex hormones only a defects behaviours driven by sex hormones. It isn't a universal behavioural panacea 🤦‍♀️

[Veterinari]

www.toddleabout.co.uk/parenting/5-top-tips-for-successful-dog-babytoddler-interactions/

[Veterinari]

www.familypaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/5-types-Supervision-HR.compressed.pdf

[Veterinari]

drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/kids-and-dogs-how-kids-should-and-should-not-interact-with-dogs/

[Veterinari]

drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/dogbiteepreventionhowwkidsanddadultsshoulddgreetdogss_safely/