Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

So the thread is coming to its 40 page end soon. I asked the question

Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

Poll results ATM are
You are being unreasonable- 16%
You are not being unreasonable- 84%

Total votes ATM 1,210

All credit to you, Flax. You must have Jack Russell DNA in you somewhere. Top marks for tenacity, even if the rat you’ve been digging out since Friday is probably just a tree root after all.

Let’s not lose sight of the fact a woman has lost her life due to the lack of oversight and controls over responsible dog ownership. The dogs in question weren’t gamboling about stealing picnics or putting muddy paw prints on white trousers. The circumstances were much more serious than that, so huffing about jaw size and bite force in the general dog population is useless.
Good that you care, though. Maybe read the legislation linked for you so many times and have a rethink about what you could do to make your area safer for all other than a blanket hatred of anything bigger than a pug.

I'm less interested in the breed im more interested in the answer to the question

As everyone knew the dogs were locked in a shed never walked and a pain in the arse(according to some neighbours)

did anyone report it?

@Flaxmeadow

So the thread is coming to its 40 page end soon. I asked the question

Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

Poll results ATM are
You are being unreasonable- 16%
You are not being unreasonable- 84%

Total votes ATM 1,210

If that's all you've taken away from this thread then it's been a spectacular waste of time.

You are using a woman's death to poll opinions like some kind of popularity contest to 'prove you're right' whilst simultaneously demonstrating your own absolute ignorance of the issues, and leveraging her tragedy for your personal agenda. That is disgusting

Shame on you

@Theunamedcat

I'm less interested in the breed im more interested in the answer to the question

As everyone knew the dogs were locked in a shed never walked and a pain in the arse(according to some neighbours)

did anyone report it?

Probably not.

As most people only seem to care when a dog bites or knocks over a child or steals a pork pie.

They are, sadly, incapable at looking at the bigger picture - which is if these dogs were cared for correctly, walked, exercised and given company and training, they'd likely never have behaved this way at all.

Veterinari
People are free to see all my posts together, and make their own mind up.
By clicking on (top of page)
"OP’s posts: See all"

The thread is running out of space soon. Thanks everyone for contributing

@Flaxmeadow

Veterinari People are free to see all my posts together, and make their own mind up. By clicking on (top of page) "OP’s posts: See all"

The thread is running out of space soon. Thanks everyone for contributing

Interesting that you can use that function to find your posts now, but not when I asked you to point to where you'd already answered my questions earlier.

Yep. Your sincerity and genuine engagement are clear

They are, sadly, incapable at looking at the bigger picture - which is if these dogs were cared for correctly, walked, exercised and given company and training, they'd likely never have behaved this way at all.

This and sadly this thread is a clear example of that. So many people wedded to their own biased opinions regardless of the evidence, lying about the law, and generally just making shit up to support their own agendas when the sad reality is that a woman is dead and it could have been avoided.

And not by leashing dogs in public or BSL.

It would be so refreshing if people didn't try and use tragedy to push their own agendas, but instead took all the energy they've put into this thread to actually educate themselves and then campaign for strategic approaches and legislation that would make a difference. But that would mean admitting they were mistaken. And some folk won't do that ever.

Sad really

Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

Poll results ATM are
You are being unreasonable- 16%
You are not being unreasonable- 84%

Your poll is pretty meaningless, I don't think I've seen anyone disagree with "stricter controls" but many who disagree with your proposals on the basis that what you would like to happen seems to be the least effective way of increasing public safety.

I too am appalled at your exploitation of Lucille Downers death to push an anti dog agenda because let's not kid ourselves that you are motivated by concern for public safety.

Good to see that many people agree that stricter controls need to be pushed through. Hopefully laws will change and will lead to less atrocities like this happening.

I have a dog and he is six months old and trained fully. Luckily we have had dogs before to know what to do. A few friends have got dogs over lockdown and these are sensible professional people. Doctors and architects. They are highly intelligent people and yet are clueless with their dogs. The dogs run rings round them and have seen various dog behaviour trainers. Yet it is them - the owners. They have no control and the dogs know it.

People have a snow flake mentality with dogs and have humanised them too much. Dressing up, Instagram etc. It's all fun and games but they are not humans. Birthday cakes and pawsecco is the ultimate for me! Why?

Dogs love a master and love to train. Fact!

@Poorlykitten

Good to see that many people agree that stricter controls need to be pushed through. Hopefully laws will change and will lead to less atrocities like this happening.

To be honest if you know anything about psychometrics it would be remarkable with the phrasing of the OP and title for anything other than overwhelming support in a MN poll.

Sadly the actual thread content doesn't support much in the way of meaningful activity.

According to PETA UK 'the RSPCA has confirmed that 80 per cent of its cruelty-to-animals prosecutions concern Staffies' which may go some way to explain why they are overrepresented in the fatal attack page on wiki.

@Dugee

You want to ban an entire breed of dog based on what you've read on Facebook and in the tabloids. 🙄🤦‍♂️

I'm not on Facebook and I don't read the tabloids. Your attempt at snobbery made your argument void.

Grow up.

Then I'd love to know what you base your views on cause it clearly ain't science.

@Flaxmeadow

A dog in the middle of a field, off lead, playing with a ball or whatever with its owner is not out of control and shouldnt be bloody reported

In your opinion. Others might have a different opinion. Usually dependant on the circumstances and type of dog.

For example a powerful dog in those circumstances, that has no recall (the owner calls it but the dog does not respond) might be perceived, by some people, as not being controlled. That person is entirely within their rights to report the dog and the owner. The law is very specific about this and this applies to a street or a field or anywhere

It has got recall. It hasn't bothered you. Its not come near you. Its with its owner playing ball. You need help.

To the posters asking what happens to a dog when you report if for being a suspected banned breed....

www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/bsl/whathappens

What happens to banned dogs?

Dogs suspected to be a banned type are taken away from their owner and held in kennels. Many dogs find the process very difficult to cope with and can result in undesirable changes in health and behaviour.
Dogs will then be examined by an expert using a set of standards which are mainly based on appearance. Genetics or parentage are not taken into consideration which means that many dogs are unnecessarily subjected to stressful processes - just because of how they look.
Banned types can be lawfully kept and exempt from euthanasia if they don't pose any risk to public safety and the owner is considered fit and proper. However, conditions must be met for the rest of the dog's life which can negatively impact their welfare. For example being muzzled and on-lead whenever in public.
Sadly, many dogs will have to be euthanased and thousands have died because of BSL since 1991.
Real life stories
Fudge
Fudge was just five-months-old when he was destroyed.
His owner, Carole from Liverpool, had rescued him at just six-weeks-old and had no idea he might one day be suspected to be a prohibited type.
But a neighbour, who thought he resembled a pit-bull, reported Fudge to the police.
Carole has said:
BSL was something I knew nothing about until the police knocked on my door late one night.

She was not aware that she could challenge the ruling and apply to have Fudge exempted by applying as a responsible owner. This would have meant Fudge could live, although under restrictions such as being muzzled and on the lead at all times when out of the house.

Now I no longer respect the law that judges innocent dogs on how they look.

I am left with a legacy of guilt for being naive and a fear of ever owning a dog again. The law is proven not to have worked and needs radical change.
Dogs like Fudge, who pose no real threat, shouldn't be penalised based on his appearance.

@Veterinari, you yourself have advocated stricter laws and changes to the laws concerning dogs, their homing, training and breeding etc. I don’t think we are far apart in that thinking. It has certainly made me chuckle somewhat as you fling insults at me regarding my inhumanity towards animals. I am a former dog rescuer and I foster for a local animal charity. I have owned many dogs in the past, just choose not to do so now but I do have rescue dogs on occasion. I am so far from anti-dog but I am not blind enough to think gnome their needs to be changed made, especially with the growing population of pet dogs. It upsets me to see so much arrogance coming in to the fore with animal ownership, specifically dogs, and specifically since moving to the lakes and I believe an overhaul of rules and laws is long overdue.

*there

[quote Poorlykitten]@Veterinari, you yourself have advocated stricter laws and changes to the laws concerning dogs, their homing, training and breeding etc. I don’t think we are far apart in that thinking. It has certainly made me chuckle somewhat as you fling insults at me regarding my inhumanity towards animals. I am a former dog rescuer and I foster for a local animal charity. I have owned many dogs in the past, just choose not to do so now but I do have rescue dogs on occasion. I am so far from anti-dog but I am not blind enough to think gnome their needs to be changed made, especially with the growing population of pet dogs. It upsets me to see so much arrogance coming in to the fore with animal ownership, specifically dogs, and specifically since moving to the lakes and I believe an overhaul of rules and laws is long overdue.[/quote]
Where have I accused you of anything in this thread?

All I've asked is that I you explain how leash laws would significantly reduce dog bite injuries

You'd elected to flounce rather than discuss your reasoning 🤷‍♀️

No flouncing here, I just gave up on your unreasonable reasoning! 😂

And I haven't advocated 'stricter laws' because that's a meaningless phrase subject to interpretation.

I've advocated for a range of multifaceted measures that address the reasons as to why dogs end up behaving aggressively towards people.

Sadly any sensible discussion on this thread has been drowned out by unpleasantness and blanket knee jerk responses driven by personal agendas and focussed on preventing dogs being in public spaces or always on lead, or extending already ineffective legislation. All dressed up as faux concern, and using the tragic death of Lucille Downer to stoke anti-dog sentiment.

All finished off with the OP crowing over a MN poll like it's some kind of popularity contest.

A woman was killed for goodness sake. Have some respect and stop with your ego-driven tit for tat.

I love how MN can find a problem with anything. Noooooooope, I don't let my well-trained, affable dogs approach a dog on lead mainly because owners like the pp have nervous, aggressive little dogs who might bite.

I think it is REALLY irresponsible to have any dog, on lead or off who is aggressive, unmuzzled is the problem here. Socialise you're dog, get them under control and properly trained ffs.

Socialise you're dog, get them under control and properly trained ffs.

If you are frequently being "shrieked" at to call your dog off why have you not questioned the common denominator in those encounters? I've never been shrieked at or even politely asked to call my dog off and I walk him off lead in suitable places daily. He doesn't bother other people or dogs he likes to keep to himself so he would not appreciate your dogs unwelcome attention. If your dog was as well trained and socialised as you claim he'd be able to read the signals and walk on by. My dog is perfectly well trained and socialised he's just indifferent to other dogs and prefers to be left alone.

@MrsBobDylan Do you have any concept of dogs who for whatever reason, are not well socialised or trained, for example rescue dogs? Some dogs are not just from lazy owners who can't arsed. Some dogs come to training from a difficult start. Could be genetics or their past which impact on behaviour.