Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

’I would like to see more breeds banned and dogs on a lead in all public places for a start’

Which would’ve made no difference to this situation. The dogs got into the woman’s garden from a neighbour’s house. If they are found to be a banned breed it didn’t stop someone from keeping them did it.

The poor woman. I agree we need better regulation and enforcement of existing laws around dog ownership.

Pit bulls are a banned breed in the UK and have been since 1991.

The people who have dogs that end up killing or seriously injuring people aren’t the type of people who would register their pets or comply with any licensing regulations

And yet we sometimes read in these cases that the dog "was usually well behaved" or that the owners were "nice people" or that it was "out of character for the dog". The woman whose dog killed the seal was a high earning law abiding professional

I thought pitties were already illegal to own in UK.

The issue is that no-one thinks their dog is capable of attacking a seal or deer or sheep or human. But they're wild animals whether we like it or not and it frankly isn't down to training, it's instinct.
The smaller the dog, the less likelihood that an attack will kill.

Banned breeds has worked SO well in the past hasn't it...

No. We need to be putting stricter penalties for those who refuse to train their dogs, control their dogs, house their dogs safely and appropriately.

There are more pitbull types in the UK now than there were when they were initially banned, for two reasons. Firstly the ban made them much more desirable by certain types and secondly, since type is determined by appearance and measurements (not genetic testing!), many dogs are born legal and grow up to become illegal! (Cross a lab with a staffy, both pedigree parents with dna and paperwork to prove it and you can have a dog who grows to fit the pitbull type measurements and is, ergo, an illegal dog!).

We rarely EVER read in these cases that teh dog was usually well behaved, in fact do a bit of digging into almost every human death as a result of an attack and you'll find that the dogs were not sociable with people, had been trained to be aggressive, bought as deterrants, known to have injured people previously, been bought as guard dogs... the list goes on. The common denominator in dog attacks and human deaths here is humans, not dogs.

It is news BECAUSE it happens so rarely.

VASTLY more children are killed by their own parents than by dogs. More people are killed by trousers or cars than dogs.

There are 5.5 million dogs in the UK, and they kill 3-5 people per year.

I have heard this kind of response in answer to wholly unavoidable, tragic and violent deaths before and have wondered if it offers any kind of solace to the victim and family at all.
Dogs are dogs, they can be lethal, people mock all the cockapoodles etc but I’m not sure any have killed anyone, yet?
Bring on the mixed breed, wider breeding, designed for modern homes and society breeds is my thinking.
People have bred dogs to suit their needs for centuries, that is why these aggressive, hunting, guarding breeds exist. They are largely not required amongst the UK population and shouldn’t be kept as pets.

I think fatal dog attacks are usually the result of a serious misjudgement by the owners. Most frequently they involve the death of a small child, killed by the family dog or the dog of a family member. These dogs are often banned breeds or very large, powerful dogs kept in small houses. They attacks tend to happen in the home. Leash laws aren’t going to prevent them.

Pit bulls are illegal but there are still many around. If you ask the owner "is it a pit bull" what are they going to say, many would probably come out with the name of dog of a similar breed that isn't banned. They're lying and they know it full well but they just don't care. Unfortunately reporting them is waste of time. I wonder if these dogs had been previously reported

I totally agree OP and actually statistically it’s Labrador’s who bite more people, those loveable family pets

Labradors are the most common breed, so it is unsurprising that they generate the most bites.

As usual, this type of thread demonstrates how many MNetters have a woefully poor grasp of statistics and risk.

@Poorlykitten

I totally agree OP and actually statistically it’s Labrador’s who bite more people, those loveable family pets

That's because there are more of them though.

This will happen until the so-called owners are done for manslaughter and given really long sentences and all their property seized.

This poor, poor woman, what a horrendous thing.

The main problem is people don’t report. They trim a blind eye and think nothing more about it.

You know which dogs are badly tested or badly behaved

As for tranquilizing the dogs, they do this to gain an assessment of the dogs behavior so see if they have any control. Which adds to the case against the owner, because they could say anything.

Pit bulls are a banned breed in the UK and have been since 1991

Indeed, yet I see many of them on a regular basis where I live in S. London.

It's always the same type of people walking with them aswell, the sort you'd cross the road to avoid on a night time.. hoodies, trousers pulled down underneath their arse and an expression that says "don't mess with me"

I was verbally abused by one of those owners at the start of lockdown whilst taking my small DC for some fresh air.

I cautiously stopped walking to let the pitbull and wanker owner get ahead because it was off it's lead and had stopped still and was staring at my pram.

Cue the owner launching into a tirade about how if I've got a problem with the dog then I should say it to his face, and how people like me (mothers, I presume) are only good for laying on our backs and spreading our legs.

Sorry, I went off on a bit of a tangent there.

More needs to be done for sure, what the answer is though I don't know.

RIP, that poor lady.

I have heard this kind of response in answer to wholly unavoidable, tragic and violent deaths before and have wondered if it offers any kind of solace to the victim and family at all

I am sure it offers no solace at all: it's not intended to.

My point is that any reaction should be both proportionate to the actual risk. The actual risk is miniscule.

Dogs kill about the same number of people a year as peanut allergy. Shall we ban peanuts?

Labradors are the most common breed, so it is unsurprising that they generate the most bites.

Also, bite is not the same as mauling and death.

Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets
YADefinitelyNBU
Someone posted a video of two little children being mauled by a random dog as they walked along the road with their Mum minding their own business.

I stupidly watched it. Absolutely horrific.
I can’t stand people who can’t see that dogs are potentially very dangerous.

Statistically, you are more likely to be killed by a human being than a dog. Let's ban people.

I’m not sure I would ever equate peanuts, a non/sentient thing, to a dog, a sentient being. Each to their own though.
If I had a pet peanut I would call it Brian.

’The issue is that no-one thinks their dog is capable of attacking a seal or deer or sheep or human.’

Any responsible dog owner is aware that their pet has a prey drive. They shouldn’t be off lead around sheep unless they’re a working sheep dog. They might not attack sheep but they might chase them - dogs are wired to chase things - and the fright can cause sheep to miscarry. Your dog could be legally shot for chasing sheep.

I have a dog who loves chasing but is too slow to catch anything and play bows at any species she gets close to. I still keep her on lead around livestock because they could be hurt running from her or she could be shot for upsetting them.

As usual, this type of thread demonstrates how many MNetters have a woefully poor grasp of statistics and risk

What are the annual statistics for hospitalisation due to dog bites and attacks?

2019 showed a 5% increase between 2015 and 2018
An average of around 7,693 admissions to NHS hospitals a year for dog related injuries [that's actual admissions into hospital]

Source is the NHS and the Royal College of Surgeons England

No. We need to be putting stricter penalties for those who refuse to train their dogs, control their dogs, house their dogs safely and appropriately.

Agree. In my opinion, about 80% of dog owners shouldn't have dogs. Their houses are too small and/or not properly laid out, gardens too small and/or not properly fenced, they are out too much, they don't know how to train them, they don't exercise them enough nor in a breed appropriate way, their lifestyle does not accommodate the dog, they choose based on the look rather than the breed temperament or needs, etc.

But we seem to have got to a place where the "ideal" is mum, dad, two kids, dog, two cars of which one is a 4wd, two holidays a year in Spain. Dogs are living beings, they should not be treated as accessories.

Nightbear
This. ‘Worrying’ sheep is illegal.

How about men rather than peanuts. Men kill an awful lot of women every year.