Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

So exams to gain a licence, points for rule breaking and complete owner ban if necessary.

Neighbor has a small cross breed puppy he’s 4 months old. With lock downs he’s never been socialized and he’s terrified of people.

They’ll be a few more around when they are allowed to be stroked.

@Flaxmeadow

As usual, this type of thread demonstrates how many MNetters have a woefully poor grasp of statistics and risk

What are the annual statistics for hospitalisation due to dog bites and attacks?

2019 showed a 5% increase between 2015 and 2018
An average of around 7,693 admissions to NHS hospitals a year for dog related injuries [that's actual admissions into hospital]

Source is the NHS and the Royal College of Surgeons England

Have you got a link to this stat please as I would like to send it to my friend who constantly disagrees with me that thousands of people are injured by dog bites every year in the UK? She think I am paranoid when I ask owners to call their off lead dogs away from me on walks.

Sadly, I knew when I saw this thread that even given the death of a woman someone would be on to say it isn't the dogs fault etc.

@Nononoandno

People are the problem, I have studied dog psychology at length. All dogs are derived from wolves, treat dog like babies and problems arise... dogs need to know where they are in the wolf pact ranking of the family. For example if You feed a dog before you and let it sleep the same level as you on a bed then the dog thinks it’s higher up the pact and becomes more dominant and confident, dogs that have appeared perfectly trust worthy for years can snap suddenly and turn on someone, I’ve seen this first hand with a much loved family pet that turned suddenly on a friend that was innocently fussing and stoking it in front of me when I was younger ....maybe a scent triggered him to this day I’m not sure but he made a mess of her face. Bigger dogs have bigger teeth and do more damage it doesn’t necessarily make them more aggressive. Never leave any dog alone with young children! Small babies to dogs are no different to rabbits wolves and can cause them to act what is irrational to us humans

This idea has been largely discredited, although I agree we shouldn't treat dogs like humans.

There’s a real macho culture on the internet o around breeding so called ‘XL bullies’ and similar. It’s absolutely gross the attitudes of the people involved and these dogs are absolutely enormous. I’ve got a large breed myself (docile) and so I’m used to big dogs but I’d absolutely walk in the opposite direction if these came my way.

There's been a huge uptick in dogs in my part of a large city in lockdown. I've come to the opinion that there just isn't space for so many animals in the tiny green patches where we live. I include my own cat in that, and I won't be getting another pet.

I have a surgeon friend who has spent far too much time stitching toddlers faces back together to have any tolerance for people who have dogs around children. He says the Akita breed are the worst for it- I believe because they are generally placid but when they snap it is awful.

OP how would me keeping my dog on a lead and paying a licence fee have stopped 2 aggressive dogs escaping their garden and attacking this poor woman?

Its not the breed it is the fact they are bred by certain sectors of the human race totally indiscriminately and the dogs are encouraged to be aggressive. It is the humans we need to deal with not the dogs! They will just carry on breeding them and call it an accidental litter, and they dont care if the dogs are taken off them because they just breed more.
The people are the ones that need sorting - the sectors of society that just do as they like.

The owners of the dogs over certain size should obtain a license confirming all the necessary trainings. For specific breeds there should be regular inspections performed at the expense of the owner. Dogs must be on lead at all public places, specific breeds should be muzzled. No more than 2 dogs/person on a walk.

@LST as a responsible dog-owner, why wouldn’t you be all for it? Perhaps if the owner knew that when he got the dogs he had to train them and licence them and renew them every year, it might have put him off ownership. Perhaps he was walking them off lead and they attacked? So if there were very strict laws about dog walking off lead, this wouldn’t have happened or countless other attacks that have happened when dogs have just randomly run up to people and children and been aggressive? New, tighter dog laws may help in some instances, or at least make people thing twice before being fecking idiots dog owners. Surely it’s worth a try? Especially in light of this poor woman, what an absolutely horrific way to die...but also it’s not an isolated case.

I hate how everyone jumps on certain breeds and classes all of these ‘certain breeds’ as dangerous. Any dog can be dangerous but certain breeds are more likely to cause serious injury due to their size and build. Dog attacks leading to serious injury are pretty rare. I also agree that more needs to be done about people owning dogs, the responsibility is with the owner to ensure their dog is under control and I’m sure in this case the owner is likely to be prosecuted.

There’s someone local to me that regularly doesn’t make sure their dogs are secure and they have gone for people and chased people when loose, these are not pit ball types, they are a popular large breed. My dd was also chased by a neighbours German Shepard that got loose a while ago. People need to be help responsible for keeping their dogs under control. I also believe all dogs should be kept on leads in public places not just certain breeds, I read so many stories of dogs attacking over dogs usually when ones off the lead and approaches a dog on the lead.

It’s awful that a woman has lost her life and the owners of the dogs should be held responsible not the dogs (though I’m sure they will be PTS).

@ SuperCaliFragalistic My dog is 9 and I let him off his lead on an open field to play with his ball. Or on a beach when we go on holiday. The op is calling for dogs to be leashed at all times and I was asking how me changing the way I walk my dog would have any impact on this terrible accident. And the answer is it won't. So I am being neither sarcastic or thick.

"There’s someone local to me that regularly doesn’t make sure their dogs are secure and they have gone for people and chased people when loose"

We have several of these locally - mostly older people with small dogs so people see it differently/as acceptable.

So there's no chance your dog will approach a child in a field or on a beach because children aren't allowed there? Elderly people don't go to beaches? Why is your desire to let your dog off the lead more important than the safety of other people?

@SuperCaliFragalistic

So there's no chance your dog will approach a child in a field or on a beach because children aren't allowed there? Elderly people don't go to beaches? Why is your desire to let your dog off the lead more important than the safety of other people?

No my dog is trained. He has no interest in other people or dogs. If he did I wouldn't let him off.

I think there should be dog parks, fenced off, where dogs can run and do their business freely. Everywhere else they should be on a leash, always. Fines for non-compliance should be enforced. There was a dog attack recently in a local beauty spot. Police on social media are asking for witnesses - dog owners added comment ts saying how it was a good place to let your dog off be lead despite signs everywhere saying it's not allowed. I feel that owners attitudes are getting worse.

What are the penalties for "being in charge of a dog dangerously out of control"? Perhaps they should be tougher. There are threads on MN regularly about people who are terrified of their neighbour's dog - they've attacked other pets, passers by etc - police should act at that point and remove the dog from the irresponsible owner.

It all comes down to people's attitudes and police resources I guess. But these attacks will keep on happening.

@Nightbear I foster for a rescue and currently have a bull breed with "amateurishly docked ears" she is also muscular. I did not do this to her. She was removed from her abusers.
Please don't judge.
A lot of bull breed dogs are actually responsible dog owners.

Everyone is so quick to blame the breed. But it’s not the dogs breed that’s the issue it’s the societal view of those kind of dogs.

Bully breeds are extremely strong and extremely loyal which can make them dangerous if they are in the wrong hands just like any breed of dog. The issue isn’t the dog itself but that the types of people that want these dogs do so because they see it as a status symbol, not because they love the animal or the breed. They also generally won’t have any control over the dog so then bad things happen gaining these dogs a negative rep. But it’s not the dogs fault it’s bad owners. A bully breeds bite is going to do a lot more damage than a Jack Russell but they are well known to be aggressive.

@LST most laws are made for the good of the people. There are laws against breaking and entering, presumably you don’t to that but there are still laws to try and stop in happening. There should be laws restricting dogs, just because your particular animal doesn’t ( allegedly) run up and attack people does not mean that we shouldn’t have these laws in place to prevent other incidents potentially occurring. It’s not tricky to understand.

[quote Poorlykitten]@LST as a responsible dog-owner, why wouldn’t you be all for it? Perhaps if the owner knew that when he got the dogs he had to train them and licence them and renew them every year, it might have put him off ownership. Perhaps he was walking them off lead and they attacked? So if there were very strict laws about dog walking off lead, this wouldn’t have happened or countless other attacks that have happened when dogs have just randomly run up to people and children and been aggressive? New, tighter dog laws may help in some instances, or at least make people thing twice before being fecking idiots dog owners. Surely it’s worth a try? Especially in light of this poor woman, what an absolutely horrific way to die...but also it’s not an isolated case.[/quote]
I am definitely all for irresponsible owners being fined. I am all for higher fines for people letting their dog shit everywhere. But I am not all for my dog needing to be kept on a lead when he has done nothing wrong. He is never off lead where he isn't allowed BTW. People who let their dogs off in areas where they should be on should also be fined. I just have no idea how this would be policed

No my dog is trained. He has no interest in other people or dogs. If he did I wouldn't let him off.

Literally everyone says this about their dog until something does happen.

@ToughLoveLDN but it’s not just these kind or people and it’s not just these kinds of breeds. The dog that attacked the seal, although very different incident was also horrific, was owned by a very naice ‘lawyer type’ wasn’t it? Can be any dog and any irresponsible dog owner from all walks of life.

It’s the law and policed in lots of other places so we could police it in the same way that say, erm, Melbourne does.