Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

@Veterinari

That person is entirely within their rights to report the dog and the owner. The law is very specific about this and this applies to a street or a field or anywhere

Oh please do link to this very specific law!
We'll wait...

@Flaxmeadow

The legislation is here if that helps

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/65/contents

A dog is considered dangerously out of control if it
1. Injures someone
2. Makes someone worried that it might injure them

I think with you reporting every dog that looks at you sideways, Flax we’ll soon have the problem sorted. Go you.

Reasonable means reasonable to another person if they had been there to witness the situation. If someone is worried a dog might injure them because it’s a dog and they have issues it wouldn’t meet the standard.

I think with you reporting every dog that looks at you sideways

I haven't said that

If someone, whether they know absolutely nothing about dogs or think they know everything about dogs, is worried that a dog is dangerously out control, then they have the right to report it.

I'm baffled as to why people seem to object to people doing this. Surely it is better that people report it, to prevent dog bite injuries?

That's not what the law says
The law say:

A dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person or assistance dog, whether or not it actually does so, (section 10(3) Dangerous Dogs Act 1991)

Where is the part of the law that specifically says you are entirely within you rights to report an off lead dog playing fetch and not bothering you?

Don't you ever think that if you have to keep creating imaginary legislation to support your opinion, it isn't very well thought out?

I don’t object in the least. Crack on.

@Flaxmeadow

I think with you reporting every dog that looks at you sideways

I haven't said that

If someone, whether they know absolutely nothing about dogs or think they know everything about dogs, is worried that a dog is dangerously out control, then they have the right to report it.

I'm baffled as to why people seem to object to people doing this. Surely it is better that people report it, to prevent dog bite injuries?

You can report what you like.

As already pointed out it won't be taken seriously and all you're doing is clogging up public resources to suit your own agenda, and actually make it less likely that the resources will be there to deal with dogs that really are dangerous

Bit selfish if you ask me

Where is the part of the law that specifically says you are entirely within you rights to report an off lead dog playing fetch and not bothering you?

As I said earlier. An example might be if the owner of a powerful dog off leash obviously has no recall (calls the dog to them and the dog ignores the commands)

Surely it is better that people report it, to prevent dog bite injuries? With just cause, yes - ie you have a true belief that you might be injured because the dog is displaying concerning behaviour. Not simply because you think the dog is too large, has too big a neck etc as you have stated and is in the vicinity.

The equivalent otherwise would be me reporting a large man that I see simply because his physical size means that he would be capable of causing me great harm should he decide to do so but without him giving me any indication that he is actually interested in my presence.

@Flaxmeadow

A dog is considered dangerously out of control if it 1. Injures someone 2. Makes someone worried that it might injure them

Incorrect again.

You can't just keep inventing imaginary legislation to suit your agenda.

Well you can, but it doesn't make you very credible

You can report what you like.

This isn't about me
It's about the general public and public safety

An example might be if the owner of a powerful dog off leash obviously has no recall (calls the dog to them and the dog ignores the commands)

That is neither dangerously out of control nor a reasonable apprehension of harm

@Nightbear

Reasonable means reasonable to another person if they had been there to witness the situation. If someone is worried a dog might injure them because it’s a dog and they have issues it wouldn’t meet the standard.

This.

You need to understand what reasonable apprehension actually means within the context of the law. It is not reasonable to report a dog simply because it is off lead and you don't know if it might or might not attack you but you don't like the look of it.

OP you are now talking rubbish. You are saying ban large dogs to stop bits but most bites are caused by dogs that don't fall into that category. Additionally I doubt you give a stuff about the welfare of the animals but the size of garden is irrelevant if they get lots of walks

@Flaxmeadow

You can report what you like.

This isn't about me
It's about the general public and public safety

Sure it is

@gottakeeponmovin

OP you are now talking rubbish. You are saying ban large dogs to stop bits but most bites are caused by dogs that don't fall into that category. Additionally I doubt you give a stuff about the welfare of the animals but the size of garden is irrelevant if they get lots of walks

It isn't just now

@Veterinari

*@Flaxmeadow*

I would like to extend the ban to include more breeds and breed types. This would be dogs with certain characteristics, neck size (muscle), width of jaw, size if head. IMO this would reduce dog bite injuries in the home
How do you think including more breeds in a flawed piece of legislation that doesn't work would improve public safety ? A recent analysis of the DDA concluded that 'substantial legal and ethical failings remain, particularly in relation to BSL'. So it seems a pretty ropey basis to focus your beliefs on

Can you explain how size of head relates to likelihood to show aggression/bite, and thus how your suggestion would actually reduce dog bites in the home? These two things appear to be quite unrelated.

Dog leash laws, on a leash at all times in a public place, would reduce dog bite injuries in public places
Why focus on a small minority of dog bite injuries if you're genuinely trying to improve safety and reduce bites rather than push your own agenda? Why are you ignoring these risks?

I agree with current laws on banned dogs but you're right, they are not good enough, and so i would like to see these laws extended to include more breeds/breed types

Why do you think extending ineffective legislation would magically make it effective?

Also - when you have a minute I'd love your insight here @Flaxmeadow

It is not reasonable to report a dog simply because it is off lead and you don't know if it might or might not attack you but you don't like the look of it.

However it is reasonable to report a powerful dog that is obviously out of control. Eg the owner cannot control it off leash

I suspect Flax thinks there is some sort of crack team of dog wardens in every council, waiting to swoop on Fudge the Lab the second he shows selective deafness round a pile of fox poo.

Let her have her little dream. Seems cruel not to, really.

@Flaxmeadow

It is not reasonable to report a dog simply because it is off lead and you don't know if it might or might not attack you but you don't like the look of it.

However it is reasonable to report a powerful dog that is obviously out of control. Eg the owner cannot control it off leash

We've already said, report what you like. I am however surprised that you'd waste public resources doing so based on your 'feelings' and considering by doing so you'd be tying up limited resources that could actually be spent on dealing with dangerous dogs.

But then you aren't genuinely interesting that are you?

@Saucery

I suspect Flax thinks there is some sort of crack team of dog wardens in every council, waiting to swoop on Fudge the Lab the second he shows selective deafness round a pile of fox poo.

Let her have her little dream. Seems cruel not to, really.

Do you know the most serious bite around here, Flax?
It was a dog on lead. A dog all us dog walkers knew to avoid. A dog that had been reported for dog on dog aggression several times before. Shit owners, walked mainly by young teenagers. It finally bit one day when it was so hot every decent dog walker had been out at 6am so their dog didn’t suffer from the hot pavements and intense heat later.

It wasn’t one of your Boogey Dogs either. Go figure 🤷‍♀️

@Flaxmeadow

It is not reasonable to report a dog simply because it is off lead and you don't know if it might or might not attack you but you don't like the look of it.

However it is reasonable to report a powerful dog that is obviously out of control. Eg the owner cannot control it off leash

To quote you from earlier (relating to a scenario where the dog is not near you):

"If it was a powerful looking dog off lead that I believe could cause physical injury and that could outrun me or a child, then I probably would yes. Especially in a park, on a beach or other similar public place"

That is an entirely unreasonable reason to report a dog.