Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

I'm talking about ways to prevent dogs injuring people. Whether in a home or in public

But most attacks are in the home as acknowledged by the Royal College of Surgeons.

Dr Westgarth, said: “The chance of being bitten by pet dogs is often underestimated because of the relationship that people have with their pets. Many people think that they’re more likely to be bitten by a stranger’s dog but actually most people are bitten by dogs they know.

www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-events/media-centre/press-releases/be-dog-safe/

Also interesting to note that whilst the headline figure of nearly 8000 dog bites requiring hospital treatment annually the body of the report explains that dog bites and being struck by a dog are recorded under the same clinical coding.

You're still refusing to explain how your lead proposal would reduce fatal dog attacks. Please don't accuse me of being uncivil.

@Flaxmeadow

By not actually bothering you? Fair enough if it was near you, jumping up etc. But you can't seriously report one that is minding its own business not bothering you.

If you're worried it is not under control you absolutley can. That is the law

Ok. How would you report it?

Hello Mr police man. I would like to report a dog that was off lead in an area they are allowed to be off lead that was not bothering me, but it had a big head. Can you please come and fine the owner because I am totally batshit?

@Flaxmeadow

I would like to extend the ban to include more breeds and breed types. This would be dogs with certain characteristics, neck size (muscle), width of jaw, size if head. IMO this would reduce dog bite injuries in the home
How do you think including more breeds in a flawed piece of legislation that doesn't work would improve public safety ? A recent analysis of the DDA concluded that 'substantial legal and ethical failings remain, particularly in relation to BSL'. So it seems a pretty ropey basis to focus your beliefs on

Can you explain how size of head relates to likelihood to show aggression/bite, and thus how your suggestion would actually reduce dog bites in the home? These two things appear to be quite unrelated.

Dog leash laws, on a leash at all times in a public place, would reduce dog bite injuries in public places
Why focus on a small minority of dog bite injuries if you're genuinely trying to improve safety and reduce bites rather than push your own agenda? Why are you ignoring these risks?

I agree with current laws on banned dogs but you're right, they are not good enough, and so i would like to see these laws extended to include more breeds/breed types

Why do you think extending ineffective legislation would magically make it effective?

So basically, OP, you want to ban all large breed dogs? Because bite force is largely tied to size.

And FWIW the bite force of an American Pit Bull is only marginally higher than that of the Lab.

@Happycat1212

I see a lot of hatred towards cats on MN yet don’t see any cats killing people. Dogs are vile. You know not everyone loves your little “fur baby” right?

I love cats too. Neither my cats nor my dogs have ever been referred to as my “fur baby”

A dog is a dog. Gloriously loyal and life enriching, deserving of a good, secure home, plenty of exercise and training to enable them to be out in public without bothering anyone else.

@LST

@Happycat1212

I see a lot of hatred towards cats on MN yet don’t see any cats killing people. Dogs are vile. You know not everyone loves your little “fur baby” right?

Wait for someone to pull up the statistics about cats smothering babies and the decline in birds etc

I've had 6 cats none have ever jumped in the cot only one was a bird killer (the only female i had my boys have all been placid) worst thing my cat did was sneak under the pram for a ride (black cat black basket)

@Fridacaninelo That is prey drive in action unfortunately. It does not mean the dog is aggressive towards humans. I don't know what the circumstances were around the cat incident, but you can't compare that with dog to human aggression.

I see a lot of hatred towards cats on MN yet don’t see any cats killing people. Dogs are vile. You know not everyone loves your little “fur baby” right?

Sorry, are you talking to me?

If so, I am not the sort of person to refer to my dog as my "fur baby"

"Dogs are vile" is a rather wide sweeping statement.

You don't like dogs, I get it.

I don't like people who don't like dogs. Actually I don't know any.

Ok. How would you report it?

Hello Mr police man. I would like to report a dog that was off lead in an area they are allowed to be off lead that was not bothering me, but it had a big head. Can you please come and fine the owner because I am totally batshit?

If I thought a dog, large or powerful enough to injure, was out of control in a public place, yes I might report it

I would contact the relevant authority, council, warden, police, depending on various circumstances, and say

"There is a large/powerful dog, I believe is dangerously out of control in a public place -insert park, street etc name- . It looks like a -insert breed type- "

@Flaxmeadow

Ok. How would you report it?

Hello Mr police man. I would like to report a dog that was off lead in an area they are allowed to be off lead that was not bothering me, but it had a big head. Can you please come and fine the owner because I am totally batshit?

If I thought a dog, large or powerful enough to injure, was out of control in a public place, yes I might report it

I would contact the relevant authority, council, warden, police, depending on various circumstances, and say

"There is a large/powerful dog, I believe is dangerously out of control in a public place -insert park, street etc name- . It looks like a -insert breed type- "

Deary me you are such hard work. Its like trying to get an answer out of my 7 year old. I have already said that the dog was no where near you, minding its own business. Just off a lead. So there would be nothing to say it was out of bloody control. You'd still report it? Yes or no?

Off lead and minding its own business isn’t dangerously out of control.
Leaping at you. Pinning you to a fence. Yep. Absolutely.

So basically, OP, you want to ban all large breed dogs? Because bite force is largely tied to size.

No I didn't say that. I said all measurements should be taken into consideration.

Is it right that a dog -even with a comparatively small jaw and neck- the size of a small pony, be kept in a terraced house with no garden and walked in a park off lead? I don't believe it is. Public safety is my first concern but that exmaple i believe is also cruel to the animal

But thankfully you don’t make the laws.

@Wolfiefan

But thankfully you don’t make the laws.

Amen to that!

Off lead and minding its own business isn’t dangerously out of control

In your opinion, others have different opinions. This is why the law, rightly, puts an emphasis on perceived threat. If someone perceives a rottweiler, bull type, etc to be a threat then they are entitled, within the law, to report it.

Leaping at you. Pinning you to a fence. Yep. Absolutely.

But its too late then

I think we can all agree though, that dog bite injury statistics are shocking and that the law, in whatever way, needs to be stricter

@Flaxmeadow

Off lead and minding its own business isn’t dangerously out of control

In your opinion, others have different opinions. This is why the law, rightly, puts an emphasis on perceived threat. If someone perceives a rottweiler, bull type, etc to be a threat then they are entitled, within the law, to report it.

Leaping at you. Pinning you to a fence. Yep. Absolutely.

But its too late then

I think we can all agree though, that dog bite injury statistics are shocking and that the law, in whatever way, needs to be stricter

No! You are bloody wrong. Fgs. A dog in the middle of a field, off lead, playing with a ball or whatever with its owner is not out of control and shouldnt be bloody reported. You would be laughed at and rightly so.

@Flaxmeadow
In your opinion, others have different opinions. This is why the law, rightly, puts an emphasis on perceived threat. If someone perceives a rottweiler, bull type, etc to be a threat then they are entitled, within the law, to report it.

Incorrect again. The law puts no emphasis on perceived threat it states: 'reasonable apprehension'
It's probably worth familiarising yourself with the legislation before you try and incorrectly use it to back up your fallacious argument.

A dog in the middle of a field, off lead, playing with a ball or whatever with its owner is not out of control and shouldnt be bloody reported

In your opinion. Others might have a different opinion. Usually dependant on the circumstances and type of dog.

For example a powerful dog in those circumstances, that has no recall (the owner calls it but the dog does not respond) might be perceived, by some people, as not being controlled. That person is entirely within their rights to report the dog and the owner. The law is very specific about this and this applies to a street or a field or anywhere

That person is entirely within their rights to report the dog and the owner. The law is very specific about this and this applies to a street or a field or anywhere

Oh please do link to this very specific law!
We'll wait...

The law specifically specifies reasonable apprehension

That does not cover a dog far away from you minding its own business just because you feel uncomfortable.

That’s fine. Report them, then. You’ll get absolutely nowhere with it and do it too many times and you’ll be marked down as a ‘malicious caller’ or time waster.

Personally, when I go for a walk I have better things to do than lurk around the edges of fields waiting for random dogs to ignore their owners but hey, you do you.

Incorrect again. The law puts no emphasis on perceived threat it states: 'reasonable apprehension'

Reasonable apprehension applies to the general public, not just dog owners

@Flaxmeadow

Incorrect again. The law puts no emphasis on perceived threat it states: 'reasonable apprehension'

Reasonable apprehension applies to the general public, not just dog owners

Yes I am aware of that. It is not however the same as 'perceived threat' which is what you incorrectly stated. Those two things are not legally equivalent