Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

@Veterinari
I think a lot are saying staffy(who are actually quite small dogs) with larger crossbreeds.
My staffy is only just under knee high and only weighs 20kg, not even medium as dogs go.

@2021ismyyear

Ok and how many people killed by pit, bully and staffie type breeds? Is it maybe more than 3?

The brutal reality though is that on average ONLY 3 - 5 people a year die from dog attacks in the UK. I am not saying their deaths weren't terrible or a horrific way to go but in the list of issues that cause deaths - pit, bully and staffies aren't even up there in the list of things to worry about.

The bite numbers are more worrying at circa 8000 per year but without more knowledge of the breakdown of those numbers its hard to know if more action is needed. Are those 8000 mostly disfigurement and if so by what breed? If 7000 are minor nips from the family non pit bull type dog all this hysteria over pit bull types is pointless.

Additionally a lot of peoples issues seems to stem from dogs generally being annoying - stealing food from picnics, jumping up, running over - as a rule they aren't the crazed aggressive huge bull dogs probably because their owners have them locked up or are keeping them on leads!

I am not unhinged.Think about that poor ladies family.2 dogs designed to fight with bulls being kept in a shed.Im not the one who is unhinged.

@2021ismyyear

Ok and how many people killed by pit, bully and staffie type breeds? Is it maybe more than 3?

You know if you were genuinely interested in a constructive discussion you could educate yourself rather than sitting back and expecting other people to provide evidence of your ignorance

@randomer

I am not unhinged.Think about that poor ladies family.2 dogs designed to fight with bulls being kept in a shed.Im not the one who is unhinged.

And your response is to cull all dogs vaguely resembling certain breeds that you've personally deemed unacceptable, regardless of their temperament, rather than take meaningful steps to address dangerous dogs or hold the idiots that keep them irresponsibly to account.

Yeah sounds reasonable

a good responsible dog owner can own any breed, train and nurture the dog and regardless of size you will have a trained sociable dog.
Not necessarily something can trigger the dog of the most responsible dog owner, I'd rather be facing a snarling terrier over any strong bull dog.
You're not alone in thinking the owner can outwit nature with nurture.

Walked in a popular spot today. Met kids crouched on the floor eating chocolate, people wary of dogs, kids on bikes and scooters.
I have two giant dogs.
They moved out of the way when requested. Stood quietly to let people pass. Moved off the path to let kids pass on bike. Bothered no one.
But as they are big no one should own a dog like them?
What we need to deal with are the irresponsible dog owners. Not certain breeds.

@randomer.

It’s funny isn’t it because the posters crying ‘classism’ are the ones associating dangerous dogs with the lower classes

A sad day for the friends and family of Rowley Regis.Pointless to continue with the discussion.

Veterinari

I understand you feel strongly about not wanting stricter laws and controls on dogs, that's up to you, but others do want those strict controls and are entitled to say so. That is their position on the matter, and mine, whether you like it not. You have already called for the thread to be deleted, accused at least 3 other posters of having ulterior motives, previous unrelated agendas, and using news items to further them.

Please could we keep this civil

Veterinari has never said they don’t want stricter controls.
Just that banning all dogs above a certain weight or of particular breeds isn’t the answer. It’s about dealing with irresponsible owners. Not certain breeds.

It’s about dealing with irresponsible owners

But how?

The issue is for every responsible dog owner there are 100 fuckwits that own dogs.

Yep this. I love dogs and my kids would love one but it’s such a massive commitment to look after one properly. I see people round here with dogs and they barely seem to exercise them. Family across the road has a beagle probably about 2 years old now and I saw the teenage daughter take it out the other day, less than 10 minutes later she was back. Now I am no expert but given the dog seems pretty active from what I can see I find it hard to believe that a 10 minute stroll round the block is sufficient exercise for it. Seems really unfair. And yet if the dog snapped and attacked someone due to frustration/lack of exercise it would get the blame. :(. Makes me sad.

@Flaxmeadow

Veterinari

I understand you feel strongly about not wanting stricter laws and controls on dogs, that's up to you, but others do want those strict controls and are entitled to say so. That is their position on the matter, and mine, whether you like it not. You have already called for the thread to be deleted, accused at least 3 other posters of having ulterior motives, previous unrelated agendas, and using news items to further them.

Please could we keep this civil

I have called for stricter controls on multiple issues. You yourself responded to my previous posts - you seem to have a short memory.

I have not called for the thread to be deleted. I have said that using the tragic death of a woman as an excuse to fuel your agenda for leash laws and no dogs in public is pretty unpleasant. I stand by that. If you were genuinely interested in reducing the risks to the public there would be a lot more reasoned discussion and less uninformed hysteria to suit personal agendas on this thread.

If you feel I've broken talk guidelines then report my posts, but don't make up stuff that I haven't said or done in an effort to claim some kind of moral high ground. It looks foolish.

@Flaxmeadow

It’s about dealing with irresponsible owners

But how?

Umm... asked and answered yesterday.

@Flaxmeadow

It’s about dealing with irresponsible owners

But how?

You've had this answered numerous times already and you know it.

@Flaxmeadow - you dismissed a holistic multifaceted approach as too dog-centric and instead called for no dogs in public
Remember

Veterinari

You are making ad hominem attacks, and unfounded accusations, on posters for them simply stating they want dogs on leads in public places and for stating they want more breeds banned.

You are still doing it now

Make your case, fair enough but if you could just please leave out the personal remarks

2 dogs designed to fight with bulls being kept in a shed

I don't think the dogs locked themselves in the shed which is why some posters, myself included, think legislation or enforcement which targets owners rather than dogs would be more effective.

@Flaxmeadow

Veterinari

You are making ad hominem attacks, and unfounded accusations, on posters for them simply stating they want dogs on leads in public places and for stating they want more breeds banned.

You are still doing it now

Make your case, fair enough but if you could just please leave out the personal remarks

So report 🤷‍♀️

called for no dogs in public

No I have not.

I have called for all dogs in public places to be on a lead

Even if I had called for no dogs in public, which I haven't, that would be an opinion on dogs and public safety, not an opinion on other posters or dog owners

@Flaxmeadow

Veterinari

You are making ad hominem attacks, and unfounded accusations, on posters for them simply stating they want dogs on leads in public places and for stating they want more breeds banned.

You are still doing it now

Make your case, fair enough but if you could just please leave out the personal remarks

Interesting that you feel my posts are personal attacks but have ignored the actual name calling...

...and Infact many dog owners on this thread have made some good suggestions and some said they themselves want stricter laws on leads in public

@Flaxmeadow

I don't disagree, but countries like America are also full of enclosed spaces where dogs can run off the lead. That isn't the case in England

No that isn't the case but then why do people have dogs in the first place if have the space to keep them exercised away from public places

Someones dog is not the problem of people who just want to use parks, canal banks, public footpaths, beaches etc and feel safe. Eat a picnic or play with a ball in peace. Without the attentions of someone else's dog

You mean like in this post where you suggested people should only have dogs if they have the space to exercise them privately, not in parks, along canals or other public spaces.

Yeah I can see how that's definitely not calling for dogs not to be allowed in public spaces. It's totally different 🙄

@Flaxmeadow

...and Infact many dog owners on this thread have made some good suggestions and some said they themselves want stricter laws on leads in public

Which as several of us have pointed out, would be entirely ineffective at reducing fig attacks. The majority of which occur in the home.

But as we've already established this isn't a thread about sensibly problem solving the issue of dog attacks on people. It's about using the tragic death of an elderly woman to push your anti-dog agenda