Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

I’m sorry but when you describe a staffie as a “soppy, soft thing” you are part of the issue.

They are always soft and lovely and wouldn’t hurt a fly, until they aren’t one day. Then it’s too late

I would argue that you are more part of the problem if you think that doesn't apply to all dogs not just staffies.

Staffies aren’t more dangerous as a breed than other dogs. Staffies are stronger as a breed than other dogs, excluding those dangerous bull dogs. It is the strengths and bite damage if they turn, as we know all dogs have the potential to bite.

@Emeraldshamrock

Staffies aren’t more dangerous as a breed than other dogs. Staffies are stronger as a breed than other dogs, excluding those dangerous bull dogs. It is the strengths and bite damage if they turn, as we know all dogs have the potential to bite.

That's a big misconception. It's just not true. Even the larger American Pit has a similar bite strength to Labradors. Dobermann, rotties, huskies, Great Danes and GS all have greater bite strength.

petcomments.com/ten-dogs-which-have-the-strongest-bite/

[quote SofiaMichelle]@sunflowersandbuttercups that's true, but your average person would have a much easier time fighting off a miniature poodle than a council bull terrier, of whichever variety.[/quote]
A fit an able adult would, yes, but not a newborn baby or small child who was unattended, or an elderly person who was potentially knocked to the floor.

The point is, dogs of all breeds and sizes have the ability to do damage - see the links upthread - newborns have been killed in their cots by tiny 7kg Jack Russells, and children have had over 200 stitches put in their faces by the family Labrador.

Yet you never, ever see calls to ban either breed. But a Labrador is a big, strong dog that weighs 30kg on average, which is double the weight of your average pedigree staffie.

Ultimately, banning a breed doesn't solve anything. In the nineties, they banned pit-bulls, so people got dobermans and Rottweilers instead. Then the trend changed to huskies and malamutes, then Akitas, now it's veering towards breeds like Belgian Malinois and Caucasian Ovcharkas.

Any breed has the capacity to severely hurt someone. Training and proper breeding regulations are what's needed, not a sledgehammer ban that, as we know, doesn't actually change anything long-term.

*I’m sorry but when you describe a staffie as a “soppy, soft thing” you are part of the issue.

They are always soft and lovely and wouldn’t hurt a fly, until they aren’t one day. Then it’s too late*

My childhood staffies were soppy and soft until the day they died. That doesn't mean all staffies (or indeed all dogs) are. We got lucky. I was also bitten by a Jack Russell as a child. the breed/size of dog isn't an indicator of an aggressive dog- but the size and breed does mean that more damage is going to be done if that dog does one day turn on somebody.

I’m talking about dogs I see out on walks. The staffies I’ve seen are generally a bit tubby, soft and either on lead or acting as if they are (staying within 6 feet of their owners.)

Like most dog walkers (I assume) I assess the dogs I see approaching as I don’t want my dog to frighten a nervy dog or get too close to a dog that might be agressive. The last dog I saw that had me stepping off the path with my dog to give it a wide berth was a husky type dog. I’m pretty sure it would have gone for my dog with no provocation. I see other husky type dogs around that are fine. Some of the most arsey dogs I’ve ever met have been Jack Russells. My dog is friends with a jack Russel that’s an utter joy to be around. I’ve come home from walking my (previous) dog and found a hole in my jeans with a bloody scratch under it where a dog went for mine silently and with no warning signs. I got in the way and didn’t realise until I saw the hole that it had tried to use it’s teeth. It all happened so fast and I thought it had just lunged. When I checked over my dog I found a bloody scratch just under it’s eye. That was a Doberman. My next door neighbours had a Doberman when I was a child and I used to go over to play with it in their garden.

‘Stricter controls’ would mean that the people who are already controlling their dogs - the ones who keep them on lead near playgrounds and pick up their pet’s poo - would fill out the paperwork and keep to the new rules. The owners who don’t control their dogs, those whose dogs have usually been agressive to other dogs and who have verbally abused anyone who asked them to put their dog on a lead would carry on as usual.

I suspect that all the regulations needed to deal with bad owners already exist. It’ll be the money to effectively ‘police’ those regulations that’s needed.

@Emeraldshamrock

Staffies aren’t more dangerous as a breed than other dogs. Staffies are stronger as a breed than other dogs, excluding those dangerous bull dogs. It is the strengths and bite damage if they turn, as we know all dogs have the potential to bite.

It is the strengths and bite damage if they turn, as we know all dogs have the potential to bite.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-takes-down-mirrors-home-20333269

This poor girl was nine years old and was left with 230 stitches in her face after their pet labrador attacked her.

I'd say that was a pretty fucking horrendous bite. So do you think we should ban all labradors?

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/06/16/dog-attacks-three-year-old-boy-horrific-facial-injuries_n_7387886.html

Or what about this attack by another Labrador on a three year old boy? Is that severe enough?

Those attacks are absolutely awful and yet you never see anyone read those articles and say "Let's ban the Labrador!" so why do they do it for other breeds?

Apologies for Fail link

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2003849/Boy-3-left-horrific-facial-injuries-Labrador-savages-Poole-Harbour.html

But that shows the kind of bite a Labrador is capable of. The breed lauded and praised as being a lovely, calm family dog that's excellent with children and a great breed for first-time owners.

My German Shepherd has a stronger bite than a lot of pit bull types - certainly stronger than a standard Staffie. Having seen him chomp his way through cow knuckle bones I know he could break any bone in my body if he applied that bite strength to them for that purpose. In the wrong hands he is a highly intelligent dangerous weapon.

In the hands of a responsible owner he is a highly intelligent, loyal, responsive, well trained dog. He plays with our little toy breed (10kg) in the gentlest way possible and the bite inhibition he must be practicing is spectacular. Would i ever leave them alone unsupervised. No. But thats mainly because I know she has very few boundaries and repeatedly ignores polite (and slightly less than polite) dog body language to go away. If she pissed him off he could hurt her. I don't think he would based on how tolerant of her he is but its not fair to put him in that position. She puts her whole head down the throat of one of our other dogs even when its lip curling at her to back off. She is frankly a danger to herself.

What is needed is enforcement of existing laws ideally with a repeal of the ridiculous law that punishes a pit bull dog based on its looks rather than its behaviour.

The Dangerous Dog Act 2020 already makes it an offence not just for your dog to be put of control and attack and bite someone but also an offence if it causes someone to be reasonably afraid that it might bite them

This law should be being better enforced. The previous poster who has large dogs hurling themselves at the fence from next door should be complaining and complaining and complaining.

There should be more clarity on what is an out of control dog. Is it a dog running amok and stealing someone's picnic, is it a dog with no recall, is it a dog that injuries something else (I would say all 3 personally). The law expects all dogs to be "under control". Let's get that cleared up and enforce it.

Decent dog owners will already be complying. The majority of other owners if the rules and actual crappy consequences (id suggest community service is better than a fine tbh) are made clear to them will start to comply. That leaves you the minority which will never comply and ultimately the only answer is removal of their dogs and banning them from having more of any sort.

It isn't the responsible owners who are the problem any big dog with the wrong owner is a killing machine including labrador.
You will scar from a smaller dog but most likely survive.
Chances of survival are reduced rapidly if the dog is a large muscular breed. I wouldn't risk owning one.

What on earth is the point of all this about "other breeds" being " just as bad".

No they are not. These vile dogs bred for fighting should be culled, end of. I would do it myself.

@randomer

What on earth is the point of all this about "other breeds" being " just as bad".

No they are not. These vile dogs bred for fighting should be culled, end of. I would do it myself.

You know with reasoned, strategic thinking like this, I'm surprised that dangerous dogs are still a problem...

No they are not. These vile dogs bred for fighting should be culled, end of. I would do it myself.

Your views are uninformed and you sound quite unhinged.

if the dog is a large muscular breed. I wouldn't risk owning one
a good responsible dog owner can own any breed, train and nurture the dog and regardless of size you will have a trained sociable dog.
My bull breeds have been the easiest to train, very smart dogs and very loyal and responsive, the two smaller dogs were hard work!
It’s the humans not the breed.

We know though that loads (?most) people are not going to train a dog properly and whilst if you fail to train a Maltese you get a yappy maybe snappy little emperor which a good kick would sort out if it attacked, it is just not the same for a pit bull. So the breed of the dog is important.

If someone can just point me to the figures for fatal dog attacks by small breed dogs...

@2021ismyyear

If someone can just point me to the figures for fatal dog attacks by small breed dogs...

Staffies are pretty small, no more than about 40cm at the withers. Jack Russell terriers gave also been involved in a number of fatal attacks. I'm sure you have access to google - or you could read the thread and the links already posted.

Chihuahuas and daschunds have been shown to be more predisposed to unprovoked aggression to humans than other breeds. I'm sure you can figure out why whilst aggression is more likely from this breeds (including disfiguring bites). Fatalities might be few.

‘council bull terrier’

Ah, there we have it! Pure snobbery.

A DAD was mauled by his beloved Staffie cross when it flipped and “went off like a bomb”.

Pawel Debowski, 33, suffered horrific hands and arms injuries as dog Set savaged him in the kitchen.

I can Google thanks... this is what I see. Stories like this. Lots of stories like this.

The issue is for every responsible dog owner there are 100 fuckwits that own dogs.

INDESCRIBABLE PAIN' Dad, 43, let two Staffies feast on his leg to protect his face and throat

Such softies they are!

@2021ismyyear

If someone can just point me to the figures for fatal dog attacks by small breed dogs...

They've been posted upthread.

Three babies under six months of age have been killed by small terriers in this country since 2009.

1 - A 3.5 month old was killed by one in 2009.
2 - An 8 day old baby killed in his cot in 2012.
3 - June 2015, a lakeland/patterdale terrier killed a 3 week old baby.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

Ok and how many people killed by pit, bully and staffie type breeds? Is it maybe more than 3?

www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/12/27/dachshund-put-to-death-after-mauling-md-baby/d05a3d2a-f857-4c1a-8f6e-c0156477c548/

An American case, but a dachshund was responsible for killing a 6 week old baby.

@2021ismyyear

Ok and how many people killed by pit, bully and staffie type breeds? Is it maybe more than 3?

Is it maybe because more people own staffies? They're one of the most popular dog breeds in the country.

www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/the-top-ten-most-popular-registered-dog-breeds-in-the-uk.html#

Staffies come in at number five.