Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

I don't disagree, but countries like America are also full of enclosed spaces where dogs can run off the lead. That isn't the case in England

No that isn't the case but then why do people have dogs in the first place if have the space to keep them exercised away from public places

Someones dog is not the problem of people who just want to use parks, canal banks, public footpaths, beaches etc and feel safe. Eat a picnic or play with a ball in peace. Without the attentions of someone else's dog

@SpaceBatAngelDragon

I'm talking about going well beyond one off chipping to merely trace an owner. A chip that can record whether a yearly license fee has been paid, whether an owner has turned up for and passed (what should be) compulsory dog handling/training, hell, even a tracker to identify whether a dog was in the vicinity of an incident (a dog fight, a biting incident). It's not a matter of just preventing dog bites. It's about weeding out bad owners, which all the dog defenders on here keep saying is the problem without offering any solutions. If none of that would help to weed out bad owners, then maybe domestic dog ownership, outside of a working dog arrangement, should be banned. That way, nobody would be bitten or killed.

I've offered plenty of solutions - all of which would be more effective than the magic chip

@SpaceBatAngelDragon

I'm talking about going well beyond one off chipping to merely trace an owner. A chip that can record whether a yearly license fee has been paid, whether an owner has turned up for and passed (what should be) compulsory dog handling/training, hell, even a tracker to identify whether a dog was in the vicinity of an incident (a dog fight, a biting incident). It's not a matter of just preventing dog bites. It's about weeding out bad owners, which all the dog defenders on here keep saying is the problem without offering any solutions. If none of that would help to weed out bad owners, then maybe domestic dog ownership, outside of a working dog arrangement, should be banned. That way, nobody would be bitten or killed.

Plenty of people have offered numerous solutions on this thread already.

There is also the multi billion £/€/$ pet industry. The way food is produced. The way adverts humanise dogs or portray them as animated teddy bears. There is an advert for dog food or dog paraphernalia, that shows a real dog sat on a couch with popcorn, or similar, watching TV as if it is a human being

Absolutely this is a problem, I agree. Dogs aren't people and shouldn't be treated as such.

I hope you also agree that banning reality TV dog ownership programmes like The Dog House is necessary, because they contribute to the problem.

*if they don't have the space

@Flaxmeadow

I don't disagree, but countries like America are also full of enclosed spaces where dogs can run off the lead. That isn't the case in England

No that isn't the case but then why do people have dogs in the first place if have the space to keep them exercised away from public places

Someones dog is not the problem of people who just want to use parks, canal banks, public footpaths, beaches etc and feel safe. Eat a picnic or play with a ball in peace. Without the attentions of someone else's dog

So basically you aren't interested in strategic ways to reduce dog bite injuries to people.

You just want to complain about any dog being anywhere in public

Some dog owners think their dogs have more more than people. It’s quite odd.

But we come back to of the almost 8000 bites a year how many were a savage maiming. All the articles I've looked at with that statistic don't say. Indeed most articles say similar things..

Over the past few years I have seen an increase in the number of dog-related injuries I deal with. The injuries range from fairly minor to life changing

The hospitals dog bite code for these 8000 incidents is W54 - contact with dog. This includes any contact with dog saliva or faeces. The notes also specify that accidental contact goes under the same code.
This means an accidental scratch playing with your dog is logged the same as an aggressive bite that leaves teeth marks and also the same as a savage maiming.

Maybe the first thing we need to do is separate the codes in the hospitals so we can see the true scale of the problem....

So basically you aren't interested in strategic ways to reduce dog bite injuries to people.

I've already given my - if i was some kind of dog law cabinet minister- new dog law proposals. What I would do if I held the rubber stamp on legislation

You just want to complain about any dog being anywhere in public

Off leash, yes

even a tracker to identify whether a dog was in the vicinity of an incident

The technology for implanted trackers does not yet exist, many owners would have them if they did in order to deter thieves and locate lost dogs.

This poor woman's death was entirely preventable but I don't think it's reasonable to suggest banning dog ownership altogether is reasonable. I'd fully support higher requirements for legal ownership and would have no problem with the police having the authority to stop and ask me for evidence that I am legally compliant with dog ownership laws.

@Flaxmeadow

I don't disagree, but countries like America are also full of enclosed spaces where dogs can run off the lead. That isn't the case in England

No that isn't the case but then why do people have dogs in the first place if have the space to keep them exercised away from public places

Someones dog is not the problem of people who just want to use parks, canal banks, public footpaths, beaches etc and feel safe. Eat a picnic or play with a ball in peace. Without the attentions of someone else's dog

No that isn't the case but then why do people have dogs in the first place if have the space to keep them exercised away from public places

Becuase they're allowed to let their dogs run free in this country (in certain places) so long as they're under close control. If you want to lobby for leash laws, then do so, but currently dogs only need to be on lead in specific circumstances and areas. A dog that's off-lead and minding it's own business is not a threat to anyone.

Someones dog is not the problem of people who just want to use parks, canal banks, public footpaths, beaches etc and feel safe. Eat a picnic or play with a ball in peace. Without the attentions of someone else's dog

I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.

I don't think insisting dogs should always be on a lead in public places would have prevented a tragedy like this. The three other fatal dog attacks that immediately spring to mind all occured in private spaces, one man was killed when two of his neighbours dogs got through the fence and gained access to his house, the dogs had not been fed for 2 or 3 weeks, a young boy was killed when he was left unsupervised in a caravan with a dog known to him, and a young girl was killed in her grandparents house by their pet. Most bites and attacks are by dogs known to the person attacked, postal workers and delivery drivers making up the lion's share of the rest.

Someones dog is not the problem of people who just want to use parks, canal banks, public footpaths, beaches etc and feel safe. Eat a picnic or play with a ball in peace. Without the attentions of someone else's dog

Not a single one of those things would be resolved by your extended ban on dogs with a certain jaw size / height and weight.

Your leash laws maybe but given the number of people ignoring the law now about places where on lead walking is required and the generic be in control of your dog law I suspect the idiotic dog owners who already allow their dog to be an issue would just continue to do so.

People can’t even manage to keep their chips up to date let alone trackers

@Flaxmeadow

So basically you aren't interested in strategic ways to reduce dog bite injuries to people.

I've already given my - if i was some kind of dog law cabinet minister- new dog law proposals. What I would do if I held the rubber stamp on legislation

You just want to complain about any dog being anywhere in public

Off leash, yes

Well if that's the point of your thread please start a new one and ask for this to be deleted.

Using the tragic death of a woman as fuel for your agenda for a ban on off-lead dogs is distasteful to say the least

@EvilPea

People can’t even manage to keep their chips up to date let alone trackers

It doesn't help that one of the biggest micro-chip companies (Petlog) managed to totally fuck up switching to a new database last week!

Perhaps the solution is to license the owners as well as the dogs. People who don't properly care for and control their dogs lose their licences.

I like dogs BTW.

I've had too many negative experiences with dogs now. And their stupid owners always trot out the same old "It's ok, he's friendly", as the dog jumps up at me/covers me in mud/barks/runs up to my children/gets dog spit on me/jumps over me when I am having a picnic/barks all day driving me mad.

Plus, with the notable exception of assistance dogs, no one should be getting a dog in this time of climate emergency - they have a very high carbon paw-print. Dogs as pets are a luxury this planet cannot afford. I have been dismayed to see the increase in people getting dogs in lockdown.

I live rurally and we see so many dog attacks on sheep. Plus the stupid owners who let their dogs off leads in the middle of fields, therefore not seeing where they poo. The poo them gets into the grass which is used as silage - causing fatal infections in cows and calves.

Then there is the problem of dog poo in urban areas causing both a minor nuisance- stinking dog poo all over shoes and buggies, and major problems - blindness.

I just think in this day and age people should not be getting dogs.

@HedgeSparrows

I've had too many negative experiences with dogs now. And their stupid owners always trot out the same old "It's ok, he's friendly", as the dog jumps up at me/covers me in mud/barks/runs up to my children/gets dog spit on me/jumps over me when I am having a picnic/barks all day driving me mad.

Plus, with the notable exception of assistance dogs, no one should be getting a dog in this time of climate emergency - they have a very high carbon paw-print. Dogs as pets are a luxury this planet cannot afford. I have been dismayed to see the increase in people getting dogs in lockdown.

I live rurally and we see so many dog attacks on sheep. Plus the stupid owners who let their dogs off leads in the middle of fields, therefore not seeing where they poo. The poo them gets into the grass which is used as silage - causing fatal infections in cows and calves.

Then there is the problem of dog poo in urban areas causing both a minor nuisance- stinking dog poo all over shoes and buggies, and major problems - blindness.

I just think in this day and age people should not be getting dogs.

Yep, this thread is clearly using a tragic death to flog an anti-dog agenda. Pretty unpleasant and opportunistic.

I'm assuming those of you concerned about climate change don't eat meat or have children?

@HedgeSparrows

I've had too many negative experiences with dogs now. And their stupid owners always trot out the same old "It's ok, he's friendly", as the dog jumps up at me/covers me in mud/barks/runs up to my children/gets dog spit on me/jumps over me when I am having a picnic/barks all day driving me mad.

Plus, with the notable exception of assistance dogs, no one should be getting a dog in this time of climate emergency - they have a very high carbon paw-print. Dogs as pets are a luxury this planet cannot afford. I have been dismayed to see the increase in people getting dogs in lockdown.

I live rurally and we see so many dog attacks on sheep. Plus the stupid owners who let their dogs off leads in the middle of fields, therefore not seeing where they poo. The poo them gets into the grass which is used as silage - causing fatal infections in cows and calves.

Then there is the problem of dog poo in urban areas causing both a minor nuisance- stinking dog poo all over shoes and buggies, and major problems - blindness.

I just think in this day and age people should not be getting dogs.

What about cats?

Cats. Umm how many people are killed by cats each year?

I don’t want to destroy anyone’s pet but I think all staffy / bull breeds should be phased out. Having worked in very deprived areas, these dogs are not looked after well, usually looked after by people who have serious issues / problems and often used as protection so reared to be aggressive to anyone else. I think middle class people have no real idea of how these dogs are used and what conditions they live in.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

I don’t want to destroy anyone’s pet but I think all staffy / bull breeds should be phased out. Having worked in very deprived areas, these dogs are not looked after well, usually looked after by people who have serious issues / problems and often used as protection so reared to be aggressive to anyone else. I think middle class people have no real idea of how these dogs are used and what conditions they live in.

And do you genuinely think if those breeds were banned, the people you describe would just be dogless? Don't you think they'd move on to Rottweilers, GSDs, Akita's etc?

Banning breeds does not address the social problems that drive dangerous dog ownership

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I totally agree OP and actually statistically it’s Labrador’s who bite more people, those loveable family pets

Labradors are the most common breed, so it is unsurprising that they generate the most bites.

As usual, this type of thread demonstrates how many MNetters have a woefully poor grasp of statistics and risk.

Well that's not true if Unregistered staffies where included in statistics actually they would be the No1 spot by quite a long shot too. Instead they are no5 for registered staffies.

True, ban them all then. This afternoon I waded into a stream, picked up a dog poo bag out of the stream and put it in the bin. I don’t own a dog and I’m fed up of clearing up after people that do and getting hassled by dogs wherever I go.