Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

True, ban them all then. This afternoon I waded into a stream, picked up a dog poo bag out of the stream and put it in the bin. I don’t own a dog and I’m fed up of clearing up after people that do and getting hassled by dogs wherever I go.

And you think that would fix anti social behaviour

I've not read article but that poor woman and her family

I concerned about the rise in the popularity of Caine Corso. Bull type huge dog Seen loads of these pups around recently.

Plus, with the notable exception of assistance dogs, no one should be getting a dog in this time of climate emergency - they have a very high carbon paw-print. Dogs as pets are a luxury this planet cannot afford. I have been dismayed to see the increase in people getting dogs in lockdown.

This is such a reach to service your anti dog agenda. You have children but I shouldn't have a dog because of climate change? I agree with much of what you say in your post but your climate change argument doesn't lend any additional weight.

Its so tragic. I'm so sorry for that poor lady and her family.

The law is absolutely useless on this. I'm dealing with 2 bully breed dogs on my street who have attacked people on two separate occasions. The last attack left the man in a bad way. And one has tried to attack my 3 year old child in our garden, i had to pull her away and run inside and still nothing has been done. Its disgusting. It's a matter of time before they kill someone and I'm terrified its one if my children. The police have no powers with this. They are probably pit bulls/American bulldogs but we are waiting and waiting for experts to test them. In the mean time they continue to be aggressive to us daily. These dogs are huge powerful dogs. I feel sick to my stomach living here in constant fear.

When I heard this story on the news today I wept and wept for this lady and for the safety of my children. Its a ticking time bomb.

All dog ownership should be registered and licenses be required. Much stricter dog on leash policies and bigger fines for owners letting dogs bark all day and crapping all over the place. That would pave the way for more control on breeding rights. Money raised from licensing could go towards creating dog only spaces in parks etc.

We should follow what works well in other countries. In Switzerland, for example you must first demonstrate your ability to become a good dog owner before you're allowed to bring a new pup home. Aspiring pet owners must first complete a course to exemplify their understanding of the skills needed to own a dog and what goes into proper care for a dog. Not only that, but they must also take a written and practical test before being permitted a dog. In Germany all dogs with a history of being bred as fighting dogs are banned. Completely. No acceptions and the punishments for owning one are tough and enforced well. Some areas also ban Rottweilers... they also have what they consider a Category 2 Kampfhund, and this includes the Rottweiler. There is no outright ban on the import of Rottweilers and other Category 2 breeds or crossbreeds, but they must be submitted to a viciousness test. If they pass the test they are treated like any other dog. But if they fail they are subject to the same rules as the Pit Bulls and Terriers. If they are not outright banned from the state they face a high licensing fee, must be neutered and must be muzzled and kept on a leash whenever they are off the owner's property.
Many parks have a designated area for dogs to roam and play free. Dogs are not allowed in playgrounds and must be kept on leash in residential and public places. Most dogs are exercised in these dog exclusive areas.
Seems like these are good places to start.

@Poorlykitten

Sounds like a great solution in Germany

It would never happen here tho as it would be seen as infringing "doggy rights" and I say that as a dog owner.

@Thatsmycupoftea

Its so tragic. I'm so sorry for that poor lady and her family.

The law is absolutely useless on this. I'm dealing with 2 bully breed dogs on my street who have attacked people on two separate occasions. The last attack left the man in a bad way. And one has tried to attack my 3 year old child in our garden, i had to pull her away and run inside and still nothing has been done. Its disgusting. It's a matter of time before they kill someone and I'm terrified its one if my children. The police have no powers with this. They are probably pit bulls/American bulldogs but we are waiting and waiting for experts to test them. In the mean time they continue to be aggressive to us daily. These dogs are huge powerful dogs. I feel sick to my stomach living here in constant fear.

When I heard this story on the news today I wept and wept for this lady and for the safety of my children. Its a ticking time bomb.

The police do have powers with this. The DDA is pretty clear.

You may need to keep on at them to enforce but if the dogs have a history of dangerous behaviour they should be at least subject to a control order

@Thatsmycupoftea
The police DO have powers, as do the dog warden, if you report incidents and concerns they should be followed up on, I’m finding it hard to believe a serious dog bite incident has occurred and nothing done, if he went to hospital they have a duty to report a dog bite.

It would never happen here tho as it would be seen as infringing "doggy rights" and I say that as a dog owner.

It would be interesting to see how many dog owners objected to Swiss or German style regulation. I'd suggest an unwillingness to prove your suitability to own a dog should rule you out immediately. I'd be very enthusiastic about owners being tested because I firmly believe it's irresponsible owners who are the problem. I'm a dog owner too.

@whenwillthemadnessend yes, just reading this thread cements the fact that many dog owners are selfish and entitled and don’t want anything to impinge on their poor little dogs quality of life, even though they may be sensible laws that prevent horrific attacks.

[quote Poorlykitten]@whenwillthemadnessend yes, just reading this thread cements the fact that many dog owners are selfish and entitled and don’t want anything to impinge on their poor little dogs quality of life, even though they may be sensible laws that prevent horrific attacks.[/quote]
Better that than using a tragic death as a 'excuse' to froth about dog poo and dogs in public. That's pretty low.

It also cements the fact that large chunks of the public support ineffective knee jerk measures - which is part of the reason we have the crap legislation that is the dangerous dogs act.

I think dog ownership should be regulated. CRB and financial checks should be undertaken and owners of dangerous breeds should be put on a list that requires further checks and regular police registration or they lose the dog.

Some of the stricter dog laws in Germany came in to force after a particular vicious dog attack so you could say they were knee-jerk but they seem to have worked rather well, so perhaps it’s what we need.

@Poorlykitten

Some of the stricter dog laws in Germany came in to force after a particular vicious dog attack so you could say they were knee-jerk but they seem to have worked rather well, so perhaps it’s what we need.

What are the dog bite stats in Germany please?

Its been reported many times.

This article is a couple of years old but it doesn't suggest that the German legislation is particularly effective

www.thelocal.de/20180530/does-germany-have-a-problem-with-aggressive-attack-dogs/

@Thatsmycupoftea

Its been reported many times.

Can you link?

Sorry I was answering a couple of questions about my earlier post not an article.

That’s interesting about the Swiss and German rules. I do think that some European countries are much more on board with putting restrictions on individual freedoms for the common good.

Here in the U.K., we don’t like having our individual freedoms curtailed. It does remind me very much of the US’s attitude to gun ownership. How many deaths need to happen before public opinion tips over.

The type of walking that I do would feel ridiculous on lead with a reliable well behaved dog. To insist all dogs are on lead at all times seems too much.

Not everyone lives in built up densely populated areas. I walk on very rural public footpaths for six hours a day, and very very very rarely see a single soul. If I do see anyone I leash up all dogs, if I can't see what or who may be coming in the distance due to corners or hedges blocking visibility I leash up. If a dog's recall is not sound, if they ever jump up, if they have a prey drive they stay on leash at all times.

If they are reactive in any way they are on lead, and muzzled.

If they are aggressive, or I have the slightest inkling that they are aggressive, I do not take them on as a client.

Too many people live alongside aggressive dogs. They manage the risks to a greater or lesser extent, and are often in denial as to how potentially dangerous their dog is. Only through detailed questioning do they disclose issues, and they minimise the problem. They are attached to the dog in a similar way to a parent unconditionally loving a child. It's a very dangerous situation all round.

[quote Poorlykitten]@whenwillthemadnessend yes, just reading this thread cements the fact that many dog owners are selfish and entitled and don’t want anything to impinge on their poor little dogs quality of life, even though they may be sensible laws that prevent horrific attacks.[/quote]
Oh piss off with your selfish and entitled bullshit. I have never said my dog should have rights over kids ot anyone else. I'd never let him off on parks or where he shouldn't be. I just don't see how its fair hes has to be leashed on a field that he goes to everyday, most days without even seeing another person and 9 years without failing to recall. If I was a dickhead who let him bound up to kids on parks where he shouldn't even be off lead you'd have a point.

@HeddaGarbled

That’s interesting about the Swiss and German rules. I do think that some European countries are much more on board with putting restrictions on individual freedoms for the common good.

Here in the U.K., we don’t like having our individual freedoms curtailed. It does remind me very much of the US’s attitude to gun ownership. How many deaths need to happen before public opinion tips over.

Actually Swiss dog bite rates are similar to the UK, so it doesn't seem their rules are effective. As in the UK most attacks are to children in the home by let dogs supervised by adults. So actually ante natal training in safe child-dog interactions, responsible breeding and sourcing of puppies and mandatory training of dog owners would work better than banning breeds or leashing dogs.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233625035TheeepidemiologyoffdogbiteeinjuriesinnSwitzerland--Characteristicsoffvictimsbitinggdogsanddcircumstances

There really is a lot of misinformation and assumption on this thread

The German legislation is even more interesting given that dog bites are not reportable and they don't keep nationwide statistics, how were they planning to determine the efficacy of the laws they introduced?

@FOJN

The German legislation is even more interesting given that dog bites are not reportable and they don't keep nationwide statistics, how were they planning to determine the efficacy of the laws they introduced?

Maybe @Poorlykitten can explain as they seem to have access to German dog bite data