Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

Ok let’s imagine it was a sausage dog that broke into the ladies garden. Would we be having this discussion now? I highly doubt it.

It’s the breed plus stupid owner in this case.

I have a tiny elderly dog who’s smaller than most cats but wouldn’t leave him alone with a newborn (that’s about the only size human he could ever harm) because although he’s a loving dog he’s not ‘logical’ in a human way. I’ve observed that does odd things sometimes which are logical to him as a dog but illogical to me as a human. Therefore he’s not entirely predictable.

The problem is too many pet owners expect their pets to act like logical humans.

How many fatal dog attacks are there each year by miniature dogs?

@2021ismyyear

How many fatal dog attacks are there each year by miniature dogs?

Okay so we're back to banning all dogs over a certain size/weight. That's a LOT of breeds to ban.

Ok I’m happy to ban most dogs to be honest. Why don’t I walk round with a tiger on a lead, letting it crap everywhere, throwing bags of poo in trees. Letting it go off lead near children?

I note that the pupil at school I mentioned was bitten by a Labrador. Yup an Andrex puppy type dog. A dog that wasn’t hers and that she had just walked past. It was tied to a post. And still got her face resulting in several traumatic operations to rebuild her face and mouth.

Lol

The dog bit a child’s mouth off. She lost her lips. Think about that for a second. Completely unprovoked. Just awful.

Just googled pit bulls as I wasn't sure exactly what they looked like and this sort of proves the point

@2021ismyyear

How many fatal dog attacks are there each year by miniature dogs?

Three Jack Russells have killed newborn babies in the UK since 2009.

@2021ismyyear

The dog bit a child’s mouth off. She lost her lips. Think about that for a second. Completely unprovoked. Just awful.

Sorry, the lol was at you comparing dogs to tigers. That'll teach me not to use the quote button.

Need to really restrict dog ownership to smaller / less aggressive dogs. Need to have home checks to ensure that dogs are kept in appropriate circumstances. Need to have all pit bulls and similar cross breeds neutered so they die out. Need to have dogs on leads in public areas and designated off lead areas.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

Need to really restrict dog ownership to smaller / less aggressive dogs. Need to have home checks to ensure that dogs are kept in appropriate circumstances. Need to have all pit bulls and similar cross breeds neutered so they die out. Need to have dogs on leads in public areas and designated off lead areas.

See above - three Jack Russells have killed newborns since 2009.

The average Jack Russell weighs approximately 7kg and measures around 35cm in height.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

Need to really restrict dog ownership to smaller / less aggressive dogs. Need to have home checks to ensure that dogs are kept in appropriate circumstances. Need to have all pit bulls and similar cross breeds neutered so they die out. Need to have dogs on leads in public areas and designated off lead areas.

ALL dogs need restricting in ownership and breeding.

We need a complete revision of the dangerous dog act. It puts down perfectly safe dogs whilst allowing others to be bred and taught for anti social reasons

My point is that as pitbulls have been illegal in this country for 20 years, it's unlikely that the dogs you saw were actual pitbulls.

There are many of them. Either pit bulls, pit bull types, or dogs with some pit bull in their heritage, and they are everywhere

Many dogs look similar, especially if crossed with other large breeds

And there is the problem in a nutshell

For a dog like a Staffordhire Bull Terrier for example, AKA a "staffie", this is why measurements, head, jaw, neck are the best way

I would include staffies with large heads, jaws, neck etc, over a certain measurement, to be phased out.

@Flaxmeadow

My point is that as pitbulls have been illegal in this country for 20 years, it's unlikely that the dogs you saw were actual pitbulls.

There are many of them. Either pit bulls, pit bull types, or dogs with some pit bull in their heritage, and they are everywhere

Many dogs look similar, especially if crossed with other large breeds

And there is the problem in a nutshell

For a dog like a Staffordhire Bull Terrier for example, AKA a "staffie", this is why measurements, head, jaw, neck are the best way

I would include staffies with large heads, jaws, neck etc, over a certain measurement, to be phased out.

Pit bulls per se are not illegal. Pit bull types are illegal. So this is already the case.

The problem is that the law is unenforceable and essentially discriminated against perfectly nice dogs who aren't owned by irresponsible duck heads as well as aggressive ones that are.

I am a dog Walker. I don't walk any aggressive dogs- it is beyond my capabilities and would be irresponsible.

I have though been introduced to dogs by potential new customers which are blatantly aggressive and a danger to other dogs and people. I always turn this type of dog away and suggest help from a behaviouralist.

These dogs have been from almost every breed type, including dogs rarely associated with very aggressive behaviour including labradors and retrievers.

It is true to say that in general bigger aggressive dogs can do more damage to a person than smaller aggressive dogs- simply due to their power, and jaw size. However, smaller dogs can certainly be a huge danger to children and other dogs.

This is such a sad situation. I very much hope lessons will be learned.

*Ok let’s imagine it was a sausage dog that broke into the ladies garden. Would we be having this discussion now? I highly doubt it.

It’s the breed plus stupid owner in this case.*

I was bitten by my cousin’s sausage dog when I was a kid. It jumped at me and bit my fingers, causing an open wound. My aunt grabbed him, apologised. They had been training it as a guard dog and hadn’t considered me being a new person to the dog.

Pit bulls per se are not illegal.
Pit bull types are illegal.
So this is already the case

But what about those onwers calling them staffies, or some other similar bull type breed, but the dog is essentially pit bull

You know it, I know it. Everyone knows it.
Lets be honest about this please. There are many many owners and dogs out there like that

Totally agree but, haven't RTFT but I'm sure there'll be loads of dog apologists on insinuating that you're being alarmist and the women probably did something to encourage it.

There was a thread a while ago on a similar vain and there'd been a case around the same time where an 18 month old - so baby was bitten badly by a strangers dog at a park in Liverpool there was a couple of posters on that thread insinuating that he'd somehow incited it - really disturbing, he was just on the swings enjoying his little self, horrible that a baby can't safely go on the swings.

A bite from a sausage dog as a child must have been distressing phoenixrosehere
But a sausage dog is unlikely to cause as much injury as a dog with large jaws and powerful neck muscles and a sausage dog would be much easier to restrain, or if need be kill

Although having said that, a sausage dog did kill a new born baby. Eaten alive while the mother slept

@Flaxmeadow

My point is that as pitbulls have been illegal in this country for 20 years, it's unlikely that the dogs you saw were actual pitbulls.

There are many of them. Either pit bulls, pit bull types, or dogs with some pit bull in their heritage, and they are everywhere

Many dogs look similar, especially if crossed with other large breeds

And there is the problem in a nutshell

For a dog like a Staffordhire Bull Terrier for example, AKA a "staffie", this is why measurements, head, jaw, neck are the best way

I would include staffies with large heads, jaws, neck etc, over a certain measurement, to be phased out.

Pit bulls and Pit bull "types" already ARE illegal in the UK, based on measurement, temperament etc.

The rules you're proposing already exist.

We need tighter restrictions on all breeds. All dogs. We need harsher penalties too. If you are caught not picking up dog poo perhaps you don’t deserve to own a dog. If we can set up licences for driving, we should be able to set up one for dog ownership. My neighbour, owns several dogs and barely walks them. They crap in their garden and it stinks so they spray antibacterial around to try to hide the smell. Dogs bark all day long. Dog ownership in this case really shouldn’t be permitted. They don’t care for them properly and the house is not suitable. I also never get how these people are on all sorts of benefits yet they manage to buy several expensive dogs and feed several more mouths?! How on earth can you afford it?!

Pit bulls and Pit bull "types" already ARE illegal in the UK, based on measurement, temperament etc.

The rules you're proposing already exist.

I'm aware they are banned but the law is not being enforced and many people lie about a dogs heritage. Or simply don't know it. Then there is the whole shady area of dog farming as well. This need a to be brought into the light

This is why I want stricter controls. The law goes some way, but it is not good enough

High price licencing
All dogs on leads in all public places
Measurement regularly taken of size, including height, weight, jaw, neck, head and those above the threshold to be neutered and spayed. This would be a phasing out

I'm not suggesting this to upset dog owners, I'm thinking of ways to prevent the thousands (close on 8,000) of annual hospital admissions onto wards for serious dog bite injuries

@Flaxmeadow dog owners are not interested in preventing this though......too many of them are inherently selfish. The other thread I spoke about made me so uncomfortable, to think there are people out there who want to make excuses for dogs attacking strangers babies made me feel quite ill.