Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

[Flaxmeadow]

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

@sunflowersandbuttercups don’t people with pools in certain countries need to have a fence around them by law? Similar idea ...

@Flaxmeadow

I'm confused as to how you would enforce it, though - I mean, at what age would you deem a dog to be fully grown (it differs by breed)?

This would be decided by vets or similar qualified .

Also, some dogs benefit health-wise from remaining entire, as neutering can have a negative impact on temperament. This is especially true for male dogs

That's unfortunate, but we have a problem where 150 people a week are admitted onto hospital wards with dog bite injuries. Many of them children and some with life changing injuries, and that number is increasing each year

This is just bonkers. You can't place such stringent controls on people's private properties. How on EARTH do you expect to enforce something like this, anyway

Financially enforced by dog licensing. A £1000 first payment or maybe higher even and then a lower one each year maybe. Something like that

We already have laws, rules and regulations on property and safety so yes we can

Good. None of what you suggest is beneficial for dogs in terms of their general behaviour, exercise or wellbeing.

This is more about protecting people. People who want to be able to hang their washing out in their own back garden for example

Because the law states dogs should be kept under control, not on a lead, unless in a designated "on-lead" area

That needs to change. It's too vague. A blanket ban on unleashed digs in public places is simple and has no grey area

That's unfortunate, but we have a problem where 150 people a week are admitted onto hospital wards with dog bite injuries. Many of them children and some with life changing injuries, and that number is increasing each year

So you're not bothered about putting a dogs' temperament at risk, and potentially making it fear reactive and more dangerous than if it was left entire?

Financially enforced by dog licensing. A £1000 first payment or maybe higher even and then a lower one each year maybe. Something like that

We've had dog licensing in the past and it didn't work. What makes you think it would work this time?

We already have laws, rules and regulations on property and safety so yes we can

And look how badly they're enforced. Plenty of people live in sub-standard accommodation because landlords can't be bothered and the law isn't enforced properly. Why would this be enforced differently?

This is more about protecting people. People who want to be able to hang their washing out in their own back garden for example

Yes, and you can protect both at the same time without being so draconian about it.

That needs to change. It's too vague. A blanket ban on unleashed digs in public places is simple and has no grey area

Okay, and what about working dogs? You can't leash a collie and expect it to herd sheep, for example.

[quote STARmyarse]@sunflowersandbuttercups don’t people with pools in certain countries need to have a fence around them by law? Similar idea ...[/quote]
Yep.

But when so many housing laws in this country are ignored as it is, what makes you think this would be any different?

*However, you can own them in the UK but they're subject to certain restrictions - they have to be leashed and muzzled at all times in public, and they have to have their temperaments assessed by professionals too

The 30 or so I saw in a park had no muzzles. Pretty sure no professionals were involved in assessing anything. There was, however a large police presence.

@MyDogTails

That list of dogs on Wikipedia showing the deaths by dog type shows clearly that the pit bulls and Staffies account for a significant proportion of the deaths in the last ten years. Poor woman. She didn't need to die like this.

The list on Wikipedia also includes three babies killed by terriers.

Yet you never see calls to ban Jack Russells.

@randomer

*However, you can own them in the UK but they're subject to certain restrictions - they have to be leashed and muzzled at all times in public, and they have to have their temperaments assessed by professionals too

The 30 or so I saw in a park had no muzzles. Pretty sure no professionals were involved in assessing anything. There was, however a large police presence.

How do you know what breed they were?

@Rosehip10

Bull breeds should be banned, look at the fatal dog attacks in the UK:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

Sick of staffie owners especially going on about "nanny dogs"

The thing is it's extremely facile to assume that the breed itself is the problem. It's very clear that certain people are more likely to own staffies as a status symbol and more likely to either not train them at all or deliberately train them to be aggressive.

Not a single person has been able to answer yet why they think banning the breed wouldn't just lead to those very same people buying rotties instead. Or german shepherds. Or malinoises. Or dobermans. Or whatever other medium-large sized dog that could EASILY maim or kill a person if raised badly like so many staffies are.

I am a huge dog lover but these breeds in the wrong hands are a accident waiting to happen. Normally they are owned by some hard man (think twat) who thinks they look cool with a dog like this, abuse it, don’t know the first thing about dog training so yes, I think they should now be banned.

Interesting to read about the neighbour who said they were usually so well behaved and they couldn't understand it.There's always that person who can't understand even when an elderly person with dementia has been savaged to death.

@sunflowersandbuttercups, I didn;t but matching them up to images , I'd say,pitbulls.
Big gold chains, huge dogs.What on earth?

@Flaxmeadow

How about a mix breed.

So is "mix breed" catered for in the law in dogs? What is the law on this "mixed breed" that you say is the name of a breed

It is a mixed breed though. A Staffordshire bull terrier is a breed of dog. If it is mixed with a pitbull it is no longer a Staffordshire bull terrier. How do you not get that?

@Moonstone1234

I am a huge dog lover but these breeds in the wrong hands are a accident waiting to happen. Normally they are owned by some hard man (think twat) who thinks they look cool with a dog like this, abuse it, don’t know the first thing about dog training so yes, I think they should now be banned.

Ok. And so when that hard man gets a Rottweiler and abuses that instead. Then everything is fine and dandy right? No need to worry about it attacking someone?

Dog owners are selfish individuals. I’d like to see much stricter controls. Dangerous dogs need to be banned with heavy fines/prison if you are caught with one.

If like to see a fee paid by dog owners too to help with the tidying up of dog poo on pavements and dog poo bags out of trees. Lazy and disgusting.

I think there should be designated dog walking fields/areas. If you want to own a dog and let it be off lead, you must do this in a designated area. You can tread in your own dog poo if it’s so natural. Absolutely fed up of dogs coming up to me and my kids and the owners saying “it’s ok they are friendly”. I don’t want a dog sniffing my arse or touching my baby. And I don’t want to clean dog shit off my pram wheel again.

Someone will be along in a bit to say “but it’s not all dogs” but sadly it’s an increasing number. Piles of dog poo on pavement. Dogs hanging outside my local school even though they are told not to because a pupil recently got bitten on her face and has developed a severe phobia of dogs. Dogs off lead in my local park. Dogs killing wildlife. I could go on. The ones that say “but my dog isn’t like that” are just as bad. They think their staffie wouldn’t hurt a fly. Get real.

@sunflowersandbuttercups, Im not entirely sure what your point is? It was a couple of days ago, being in my right mind and with a reasonable memory , I Googled a few breeds and came up with the best fit.
I suppose I could refer back to the other 2 adults I was with and/or my phone of you like?

[quote randomer]@sunflowersandbuttercups, I didn;t but matching them up to images , I'd say,pitbulls.
Big gold chains, huge dogs.What on earth?[/quote]
Lots of breeds look like pitbulls at first glance, though - including (off the top of my head):

American bulldogs
Bullmastiffs
American Staffordshire terriers
Cane Corso
Staffies (even though a pure-bred staffy is tiny compared to a pitbull)
Olde English Bulldogs
Dogue de Bordeaux

and various crosses thereof.

I don't doubt that there are some genuine pitbulls in this country but I also think far too many people jump on any bull-breed and call it a pit because they don't really know any better.

Flax you’re quite clearly bonkers.
You want to get rid of any dog breed in the entire country that weighs over a certain amount.
That’s nuts. The problem here is the owners. Not the dogs. Many many people own larger breeds but are responsible and their animals cause no issues at all.
This case is beyond awful. And I would welcome anything that made people think carefully before getting any dog, know exactly where it’s coming from (stamp out puppy farmers and BYB who don’t socialise pups), commit to training and act responsibly.
Too many people don’t take dog owning seriously.
That doesn’t mean no one should ever be allowed to own a large breed and no dog should ever be off lead.

[quote randomer]@sunflowersandbuttercups, Im not entirely sure what your point is? It was a couple of days ago, being in my right mind and with a reasonable memory , I Googled a few breeds and came up with the best fit.
I suppose I could refer back to the other 2 adults I was with and/or my phone of you like?[/quote]
My point is that as pitbulls have been illegal in this country for 20 years, it's unlikely that the dogs you saw were actual pitbulls.

Many dogs look similar, especially if crossed with other large breeds.

I’d like to see much stricter controls. Dangerous dogs need to be banned with heavy fines/prison if you are caught with one.

The UK has already banned four dangerous dog breeds (Pitbulls, Japanese Tosas, Fila Brasileiros and Dogo Argentinos), yet we still have thousands of dog attacks each year. So that obviously hasn't worked very well. How many other breeds do you want to add to the list?

If like to see a fee paid by dog owners too to help with the tidying up of dog poo on pavements and dog poo bags out of trees. Lazy and disgusting.

It is lazy and disgusting, and there are already fines in place if people get caught. However, plenty of non-dog owners also litter and cover the place in rubbish - it's not exclusive to people who own dogs.

I think there should be designated dog walking fields/areas. If you want to own a dog and let it be off lead, you must do this in a designated area.

I absolutely agree with you - this would be an EXCELLENT idea. Sadly our nearest area like this is over two hours away.

Absolutely fed up of dogs coming up to me and my kids and the owners saying “it’s ok they are friendly”. I don’t want a dog sniffing my arse or touching my baby. And I don’t want to clean dog shit off my pram wheel again.

I agree with you that all that is wrong - nobody has said otherwise.

Someone will be along in a bit to say “but it’s not all dogs” but sadly it’s an increasing number. Piles of dog poo on pavement. Dogs hanging outside my local school even though they are told not to because a pupil recently got bitten on her face and has developed a severe phobia of dogs. Dogs off lead in my local park. Dogs killing wildlife. I could go on.

Your issue is with the owners, not the dogs.

Oh and that’s another classic argument. “It’s not the dog, it’s the owner”

Anyone that leaves a staffie or any large log in a room with a baby alone for example is an idiot.

All dogs are “lovely” until they decide not to be. And it might be just too late then.

Imagine raising your family and getting to 85 years old to be mauled to death by dogs in your own back garden. The horror that poor woman suffered because of her neighbours.

@2021ismyyear

Oh and that’s another classic argument. “It’s not the dog, it’s the owner”

Anyone that leaves a staffie or any large log in a room with a baby alone for example is an idiot.

All dogs are “lovely” until they decide not to be. And it might be just too late then.

If it's a classic argument, it's probably because it's a sensible one. The rest of your post even implies you agree.

Even a small or medium breed could easily kill a baby. Anyone who leaves any dog in a room with a baby alone is an idiot, demonstrating that it's not the breed, it's the owner.

@2021ismyyear

Oh and that’s another classic argument. “It’s not the dog, it’s the owner”

Anyone that leaves a staffie or any large log in a room with a baby alone for example is an idiot.

All dogs are “lovely” until they decide not to be. And it might be just too late then.

Oh and that’s another classic argument. “It’s not the dog, it’s the owner"

Of course it's the owners' fault. Who else do you think is responsible for controlling a dog?

Anyone that leaves a staffie or any large log in a room with a baby alone for example is an idiot.

Any owner who leaves a dog alone with a baby is an idiot - breed is irrelevant. See the link upthread, where three babies under a month old have been killed by Jack Russells in the UK since 2009.

All dogs are “lovely” until they decide not to be. And it might be just too late then.

Agree completely, but that's not exclusive to staffies.

If it’s the owner, which it isn’t in all cases, some breeds are dangerous. How can we stop dumb idiots from buying dogs? It’s so stereotypical... the sort of people that own these horrid dogs are always the same type of people sadly.

@2021ismyyear

If it’s the owner, which it isn’t in all cases, some breeds are dangerous. How can we stop dumb idiots from buying dogs? It’s so stereotypical... the sort of people that own these horrid dogs are always the same type of people sadly.

Can we never have a discussion about dogs without these lazy stereotypes?

@2021ismyyear

If it’s the owner, which it isn’t in all cases, some breeds are dangerous. How can we stop dumb idiots from buying dogs? It’s so stereotypical... the sort of people that own these horrid dogs are always the same type of people sadly.

Right. And you think banning staffies would just suddenly stop all attacks? Or those same people would instead get rottweilers and german shepherds and dobermans? (AKA IT'S THE OWNER NOT THE BREED)!