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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Woman 80s, Savaged to Death by Dogs, Birmingham

999 replies

Flaxmeadow · 02/04/2021 22:53

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs
Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
MimiDaisy11 · 03/04/2021 09:38

I agree it's not the dog's fault - I'm sure most would also agree. Just like when someone uses a weapon it's not the weapon's fault. Obviously, it lies with people and there should be tighter restrictions on owning such dogs.

knocke · 03/04/2021 09:41

He has never bitten anyone. I gave too little information: he lunged when the people crossed the road and came straight towards me. He was on a lead, I pulled him in and away and apologised.

Have you trained him to stop lunging at people? Or do you like that he is "an excellent guard dog"?

Viviennemary · 03/04/2021 09:43

I wish this fashion for dog keeping would go. Can't stand them.

echt · 03/04/2021 09:48

@knocke

He has never bitten anyone. I gave too little information: he lunged when the people crossed the road and came straight towards me. He was on a lead, I pulled him in and away and apologised.

Have you trained him to stop lunging at people? Or do you like that he is "an excellent guard dog"?

He doesn't lunge at people habitually, he lunges when he perceives, I guess, a threat. He lunges happily when he sees people he knows. He's being trained to stop this.

When I said he was an excellent guard dog I meant with respect to my home, when he barks to announce visitors and packs it in when I OK them or he recognises them. He is not allowed the run of the yard without me being there.

At night he will hurl himself downstairs to investigate undue noise.

That's what I mean by a good guard dog.

LizBennet · 03/04/2021 09:48

Absolutely horrific. I do wish there were tighter laws on dog ownership.

randomer · 03/04/2021 09:48

At my local park,there was obviously some kind of meetup for owners of very large dogs,muscular and joely.I dont know the breed.Some were on leads made from gold links.
There was also a large police presence,several vans and patrols.
I dont understand why anybody would want these dogs.

LakieLady · 03/04/2021 09:50

@UsedUpUsername

You can make any breed of dog vicious, so banning breeds isn't necessarily going to be a good solution

Lol lol lol damn those vicious chihuahuas

(I mean, they are vicious, but who cares?)

The first dog bite I ever had was from a chihuahua. It's owner was holding it, I reached across to stroke it without asking and it nipped me on the nose.

I was 9 years old and I've never touched a stranger's dog without asking since. Oh, and I got a bollocking from my mum!

These days, the parents of a child who did similar would probably be clamouring for the dog to be euthanased.

poppycat10 · 03/04/2021 09:51

@Flaxmeadow

A woman in her 80s has been savaged to death by neighbours dogs Am I being unreasonable to want much stricter controls on keeping dogs as pets
No you're not, but even without reading the thread I suspect there are loads of posts about most dogs being fine and it's just a few bad apple dog owners.

Which isn't true because any dog can turn. Most don't kill but a lot cause injury - maybe indirect eg if they suddenly run at you (intending only to say hello) but you fall off your bike and break a collar bone or something.

And if you keep dogs on leads they can't run off (assuming it's not a child holding a massive dog which should not be happening anyway) and (a) get lost or (b) go into peoples' gardens and attack them.

Dog ownership needs to be much more heavily regulated but while the fiction that they are "fur babies" continues it will never happen.

LBXXX · 03/04/2021 09:51

Honestly you people crying that pit bulls should be banned are ridiculous and pathetic

It’s dog owners that should go through more rigorous checks. NOT the dogs. Odds are the owner raised his dogs to be vicious. Dogs don’t just get born and become evil, they’re made that way just like people.

Yes some dogs are bred for different things however if as a owner your aware what breed you have you ensure you take the correct steps with that dog so they’re friendly.

Honestly do some research before you stout your sh*t

randomer · 03/04/2021 09:52

Having seen a picture,I realise they were pit bulls.I felt afraid.

poppycat10 · 03/04/2021 09:52

@Viviennemary

I wish this fashion for dog keeping would go. Can't stand them.
Totally with you, but I fear it will only get worse - eg it now seems de rigeure to take dogs to offices (when people are working in them). Ugh.
ComDummings · 03/04/2021 09:53

“Oh she’s a big softie”
“He wouldn’t hurt a fly”
“She’d just lick you to death”
“Don’t tar these breeds with the same brush”
“How dare you say dogs can be dangerous”

Most dog owners have no business having a dog. Most are crap. Genuinely most.

Pollymollydolly · 03/04/2021 09:53

This is terribly sad - a woman has lost her life.

However I think you are being extremely unreasonable. Humans are the biggest cause of injury and death to other humans, should we have controls on people having children?

There are irresponsible pet owners just as there are irresponsible parents. I am perfectly clear on which group causes the greater damage to society as a whole.

DarceyDashwood · 03/04/2021 09:53

That’s sort of the point isn’t it. If a child acts impulsively like this around a small dog they are unlikely to be hurt. If they do it around a massive powerful dog - they could be killed

Or as in previous, tragic cases, if they walk into a room holding food the dog decides it wants, attacked and killed.

knocke · 03/04/2021 09:54

He doesn't lunge at people habitually, he lunges when he perceives, I guess, a threat. He lunges happily when he sees people he knows. He's being trained to stop this.

Good

CricketClub · 03/04/2021 09:57

My dog is a sweetie, and as a working breed has prey drive. He is an excellent guard dog and I have seen him go for a stranger on the street who was approaching me rather quickly and directly

He has never bitten anyone. I gave too little information: he lunged when the people crossed the road and came straight towards me. He was on a lead, I pulled him in and away and apologised.

Yeh. I’m sure you have an excellent guard dog there. Let’s hope it doesn’t ever escape like the ‘excellent’ guard dog that mauled two young children and their mother on a street in Birmingham in Feb 2021.

The video link in this article doesn’t show absolute horror of this attack for obvious reasons but it’s shown in other articles on-line.

www.itv.com/news/central/2021-02-09/two-toddlers-in-hospital-after-being-attacked-by-guard-dog-in-birmingham

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 03/04/2021 09:57

@ApplesinmyPocket

The statistics on hospital admissions for dog attacks are always an eye-opener - Vet Times - Dog bite hospital admissions - 8000 a year

'Lead author John Tulloch, an epidemiologist at the University of Liverpool, said: “....Our study presents just the tip of the iceberg, as it only includes injuries severe enough to require hospital admission.”'

Children aged 14 or under made up a quarter of the figures. That's 2000 children a year with dog attack injuries severe enough to warrant hospital admission.

There are far too many dog bites - because idiots leave kids unsupervised with dogs and because they do not train or socialise dogs properly. I am an A&E doctor/urgent care GP, so I have seen many horrible dog bites. My dogs are never left unsupervised with a young child for a moment, even though they have never shown aggression. Social media videos of small kids curled up with dogs or climbing all over them make my blood run cold.

But the OP asked whether there should be tougher controls on dogs in public. How will that help prevent dog bites, almost all of which occur in private homes/gardens?

Attacks of the sort that have occurred on this elderly lady make the news precisely because they are so rare. A knee-jerk "Something must be done" is stupid and disproportionate - especially when the actions suggested would not have prevented the attack in the news.

Arbadacarba · 03/04/2021 09:58

Which isn't true because any dog can turn.

What do you mean by 'turn'? A healthy, well-trained and socialised dog that is having all its needs met won't suddenly become aggressive, even if provoked.

SleepOhHowIMissYou · 03/04/2021 09:58

@MyDogTails

The issue is that no-one thinks their dog is capable of attacking a seal or deer or sheep or human. But they're wild animals whether we like it or not and it frankly isn't down to training, it's instinct. The smaller the dog, the less likelihood that an attack will kill.
I have a retired greyhound. I know full well that he will chase and kill anything he can catch (squirrels, rabbits, rats, cats, small deer, foxes, hedgehogs, badgers). This is why he is muzzled on walks. Having known him many, many years, I know he poses no threat to other dogs and humans, though I still worry he may go after a toy breed (but he never has) as the chase instinct is so strong in sight hounds.

Dogs look different because they are bred for different purposes. The bull breeds are fighting dogs and my breed is a racing dog. My dog was retired because he was slow but it doesn't change his breeding or his nature and you're going to stand a far better chance if he bites you with his pointy-faced jaw than if a bull breed does.

Don't assume owners don't know their own dogs. I chose my breed for their famous laid back disposition (indeed, he spends the majority of his life asleep) and affectionate nature. However, I'm not blind to his faults and spent yesterday blocking a gap in our hedge to deter next doors new cat from using our lawn as a toilet (no issue picking up a few more poos as dog does plenty of his own, but he will kill the cat if he gets his mouth on it). The muzzle on walks is a precaution too (you'll see many sight hounds muzzled in public as it's common with dogs trained to race).

I'm going to play Mumsnet bingo now. 100 points for any poster who tries to explain that bull breeds jaws don't really lock (yes, we know, it's an expression) and 200 points every time I see the words "Nanny Dog"!

Brunt0n · 03/04/2021 09:58

@ComDummings

“Oh she’s a big softie” “He wouldn’t hurt a fly” “She’d just lick you to death” “Don’t tar these breeds with the same brush” “How dare you say dogs can be dangerous”

Most dog owners have no business having a dog. Most are crap. Genuinely most.

Agreed.

Pit bulls aren’t always the problem.
The kind of people who choose to own pit bulls in a lot of cases?(NOT ALL) They’re the problem. Wouldn’t trust them to look after a jelly, never mind a dog.
Unfortunately pit bulls attract those kind of owners.

LBXXX · 03/04/2021 10:01

Exactly this

The owners of pit bulls 90% of the time are young men that use them as a tool to look intimidating

If you ever met a well socialised and looked after pit most would change their mind, it certainly changed mine!

But unfortunately it’s going to be a stigma forever because it’s the owners that give these dogs a bad name.

Livelovebehappy · 03/04/2021 10:02

Increased dog ownership over the last 12 months during lockdown has brought about so many horror stories. People who just purchase dogs on a whim, and don’t study breeds, buying dogs not appropriate to their family set up, and don’t know how to care or train their dogs. Obviously might not be the case here - dogs could have been owned for years, but I can see it becoming a common problem in the future.

randomer · 03/04/2021 10:03

What is a pit bull for exactly?

echt · 03/04/2021 10:05

@Arbadacarba

Which isn't true because any dog can turn.

What do you mean by 'turn'? A healthy, well-trained and socialised dog that is having all its needs met won't suddenly become aggressive, even if provoked.

You must be joking.

That unless the backstory of any dog that turns is that it wasn't sufficiently trained, socialised, yada, yada.

The bottom line is they can, and with that in mind, I don't "trust" any dog, including my own.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 03/04/2021 10:06

Pit bulls aren’t always the problem. The kind of people who choose to own pit bulls in a lot of cases?(NOT ALL) They’re the problem. Wouldn’t trust them to look after a jelly, never mind a dog. Unfortunately pit bulls attract those kind of owners.

Exactly. If pit bulls are banned, these types of people will just get German Shepherds or Dobermans instead and socialise them to be aggressive.

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