What is this behaviour by teacher?

[accesstheinternet]

Class of 9 and 10 year olds, about to go into lockdown, the class is talking about what it will be like and asking questions. Suddenly the teacher says out of the blue, first time anything like this has happened "and who will miss Charlie and his bad temper?"

Charlie is shocked and upset and the class sort of murmured "me" and Charlie's mother asks the teacher what was up when she saw her and the teacher said that she had spoken to Charlie and all was fine, apparently Charlie had lost his temper because someone had pushed him in the playground.

Then the next day Charlie comes out in floods of tears, saying that he had written down an instruction he thought had to be written down, the teacher had starting berating him and saying only he would do that, and encouraged the whole class to mock him, he had become upset at the berating and some of the class had laughed.

The teacher is normally fine.

@Annebronte

Msbehavin sounds great to me. It sounds as if she knows the kids well and gets the tone right. If a student is getting something wrong, eg being repeatedly late, then they do need to be singled out and the behaviour does need to be addressed. Surely better to take a gentle, good humoured approach like this? Often more effective than a telling off, which can really create divisions between teacher and student.

@anne What if they’re repeatedly late due to an awful home life that they haven’t told anyone about? Is it still funny then?

@Hamhockandmash

But it is the case in life as well. You are never going to be everyone’s cup of tea. It is impossible to be everyone’s best teacher. There are always going to be clashes of personality- especially when teaching teenagers. You do your best for each kids but there are always some who are not going to like your style. It is a mistake to try to be all things to everyone. You end up being nothing to anyone.

In the case of the OP the teacher seems to have misjudged their relationship to the child. They tried to be lighthearted and picked the wrong kid. If I was that parent I would bring it up and I think the teacher should have a restorative conversation with the kid. They need to feel comfortable in the classroom and that is obviously not the case anymore.

I really lost my temper with two student on Thursday. They deliberately disobeyed me and stopped the start of the lesson for ten minutes arguing as to why they should be able to sit whoever they want to. There were a couple of reason why not (we have a seating plan, they talk constantly when sat together and we needed silence that lesson for a test etc). Even though they had been way out of line I still found them later and had a restoring conversation in which I apologised for losing my temper (it doesn’t happen very often and I always feel a bit ashamed when I do).

Teachers are human beings. It is massively emotionally draining to maintain positive relationships with 200 kids all day long. Sometime people slip up. It doesn’t mean they are a bully.

If this happened at lockdown why are you posting this so much later?

I was a good kid at school. Quiet. Hard working. A certain teacher took something against me in year 3.
She was horrid. Took me away from my friends & sat me with the naughty kids. If something went wrong I was the one who got in trouble for it even if I had nothing to do with it.
30 years later I still remember how shit she made me feel.
I’d love to run into her & tell her the effect it had on me.

I'm a teacher and I was a bit taken aback when watching Dead Poets society recently how much gentle teasing Robin Wliams character did of the kids. I had a teacher in school who was like this and we all found her funny and didn't mind the teasing. She was a favourite of ours.

However it's a delicate balance and one I would never try as a teacher myself. I have been teased over the years at times and hated it too. I was a very scatty kid and have my own scatty children now ( two who have diagnosed with dyslexia, one with ADHD) and I find some very nice, excellent teachers I work work with really don't get how hard it is for some kids to actually remember things and organise themselves. For example my clever son was assessed and his working memory was only 4%ile and his processing speed was in the 2%ile. Thus his scattiness and Add diagnosis. While he s clever and articulate he often doesn't know what day it is or roughly what time it is. We were told he really struggles knowing how much time has passed.. So if he's doing something he might not know if it's taken him 5 mins or an hour. I relate a lot to what he goes through and would have a milder version.
But I think teachers I work with often think these kind of kids just need to get their act together.
So while MsBehavin might have a lovely classroom atmosphere in her class, it's a difficult one to get right and personally I would never tease a kid about their forgetfulness or scattiness or anything else really.

I would never be unkind to a student or make fun of them in front of the class in a way that I knew would hurt their feelings or make them feel small.

I am also a secondary teacher. The point is, you can't know what is hurting their feelings, or what is making them feel small. "Teasing" students is a very slippery slope.

We have a Charlie in our class.... everyone is bored of his shit

@BelleSausage no one is asking you to be their best pal, or not discipline them. People are saying don’t take the piss as it has lasting effects.

@bruffin

If this happened at lockdown why are you posting this so much later?

Because *@accesstheinternet* clearly has a huge back story going on so isn’t coming back.

Or @accesstheinternet just wanted to set this up and let it roll.

@msbehavin You sound like a bully actually.

Ham hock, you aren’t seriously suggesting that a kid is allowed to arrive consistently late to my lessons and not be told off, just in case there’s a reason such as you suggest? You can be pretty sure that a good school (and mine is) will be aware of extenuating circumstances and that teachers will be aware, so we know when it’s not appropriate to draw attention. Bad behaviour needs tackling. And being late is bad behaviour.

I think the thing for Charlie here, and what would make me angry is dragging the rest of the kids into it. (The same for Misbehavin' and her methods).
Yes, I do work in a school, and yes, I will tease a child but NEVER involve others, never in a group. I'm horrified that anyone who thinks that basically saying, 'hey group, let's all make a point of one person's failing', is ok.
EG. I have one child who is soooooo slow at working, eating, getting changed for games etc It's almost farcical. Work wise, I sit with her and prompt her to keep looking at the paper, help if need be. Eating wise, I have been known to pretend to fall asleep as she takes so long, she laughs and says I'm old I must need naps etc. I would never get the rest of the group involved, or call for comment from her peers on her behaviour, that is awful.if the teacher called on Charlie's class to comment on him en masse I would complain.

People aren't subtle about starting teacher bashing threads nowadays are they?

Start a thread and disappear.

I'm not a teacher.

When the teacher is in effect joining in with bullying, it gives the green light for the bullies to carry on, and reinforces that that child really is at the bottom of the pecking order. If a teacher is crass and unsympathetic, the children will pick up on who the teachers like and dislike, and worse who they despise.

I was bullied at primary school by the teacher’s favourite, he could do no wrong, and sadly that teacher took us for 3 years. The worst bully I’ve been unlucky enough to encounter in adult life, is herself a teacher.

Some teachers are amazing

Some are awful

Some are mostly good but misjudge situations and events.

I don’t think you can say that because there have been no complaints there’s definitely not some students who would prefer it to stop. Away from MN land, most people are reluctant to complain to schools and only do so when things are really dreadful. (I said most and I know some will complain about everything and anything but that isn’t typical.)

And to be honest the kid who has no one making sure he’s at school on time won’t have parents who are constantly on the schools back.

I'm nearly 30 and clearly remember how vile my year 4 teacher was to me, she even wrote in my end of year 4 report how I never listened and it was a waste of a year teaching me. I never had any issue with any other teacher but I remember sitting in lessons trying not to cry on a regular basis.
Teachers aren't always in the right.

My year 1 child is "challenging" but no teacher would ever speak to her in that manner.

@msbehavin, just woke up and read your post . Saying it is a miracle that a child has arrived on time for once is not a joke. Is it not more important to congratulate him/ her- positive reinforcement!! rather than go for a cheap laugh to endear yourself to the class. Reminding him/her that they are always late when they have made an effort and been on time is not a way to make them feel good!!! and by the way I am a teacher.

Based on the OP, the teacher is being unreasonable and unprofessional. Hard to know if that’s all the facts though.

I have a teasing relationship and use sarcasm with my classes but it’s not aimed at the children. They enjoy it and we all have a good laugh.

I’ll make jokes about myself or the learning but not the children’s issues. I sometimes call them my minions though when I need a job doing like going to another class to ask for something. They’re 9/10 so get that I’m joking and often retort with something funny. They don’t always get it right but learning how to respond to jokes is useful in life.

@Annebronte

Ham hock, you aren’t seriously suggesting that a kid is allowed to arrive consistently late to my lessons and not be told off, just in case there’s a reason such as you suggest? You can be pretty sure that a good school (and mine is) will be aware of extenuating circumstances and that teachers will be aware, so we know when it’s not appropriate to draw attention. Bad behaviour needs tackling. And being late is bad behaviour.

Read what I’ve said. Discipline and taking the piss are two different things. As I said up thread, discipline is fine. ‘Hilarious banter’ in front of other kids is different. Read what I’ve actually said.

I also have a very sensitive child who would fall apart under the gentle teasing some of you are suggesting is ok.
I would happily be that parent if it got you to lay off my kid

I just wanted to say thank you so much to everyone who replied, I wasn't expecting so many, it was really helpful. I think the teacher can sometimes not cope and sometimes can be vindictive, she has good points too, I was planning to mow the lawn this morning and try to work out the best thing to do.

I will reply to some of the posts now too

@msbehavin

I'm a teacher (in secondary) and good natured, gentle teasing of students and their foibles is part of creating a warm classroom environment. I will rib kids for always being late, always forgetting things - along the lines of declaring it to be a miracle if a kid who's always late turns up on time, telling everyone not to 'do an insert kid name here' if there's a running joke about a particular child in the class who's always doing something wrong, etc. It's all done in love, the kids know I don't mean anything by it, and they love having a giggle at themselves and each other.

I'm wondering whether what Charlie (presumably your child) has reported back to you is a misunderstanding of a teacher trying to make a joke to show Charlie that their earlier temper tantrum was forgiven - 'we won't miss Charlie's temper, will we', said in a kind voice with a wink and a little pat on the shoulder would be the circumstances I'd expect this comment to have been said in. Likewise with the writing down the wrong thing - if I had a child in my class who always does things like that, I'd probably make a joke of it too- 'oh dear, never mind, trust you Charlie!' - said in a lighthearted and affectionate tone, showing it didn't matter and that I found their behaviour endearing.

I'm wondering whether Charlie has misinterpreted the teacher's behaviour and has read what was meant to be kindness as being nasty. Some kids really don't understand sarcasm, for example. If being unkind is totally out of character for the teacher, I'd be more inclined to think this is the explanation.

I am wondering why you're asking this now, as it was clearly an incident that happened a few weeks ago (before lockdown). Also, if it was a few days before lockdown, do bear in mind stress and anxiety levels amongst both teachers and children would have been high. Perhaps the teacher did snap. Perhaps Charlie overreacted. The truth could be somewhere in the middle. I'd contact the teacher, and arrange a meeting to discuss Charlie's feelings about the incidents. Even if it's all been a misunderstanding, the teacher needs to know how Charlie interpreted the comments so that they can adapt their communication with him accordingly in future.

You do what?! That isn’t creating a warm friendly atmosphere. That’s creating an atmosphere of the silenced and the favoured.

Are you really as daft as you sound?

@mintessa Thank you. I grew very strong and grew up fast because I had to. I wouldn't let them win, so made the most of life, have a happy positive outlook, I appreciate the smaller things in life. I also didn't take any shit from anyone as an adult. So not all bad. Xx

If this is the story as told by Charlie, I very much doubt it is accurate.

The best thing to do about something that is likely to be inaccurate, months after the event, is nothing.

@Annebronte

Msbehavin sounds great to me. It sounds as if she knows the kids well and gets the tone right. If a student is getting something wrong, eg being repeatedly late, then they do need to be singled out and the behaviour does need to be addressed. Surely better to take a gentle, good humoured approach like this? Often more effective than a telling off, which can really create divisions between teacher and student.

It’s not gentle good humour. It’s passive aggressive. It teaches the children that they cannot challenge anything because it’s ‘in good humour’ and if they don’t laugh along they are being unreasonable. It happens where the teacher is incapable of being direct and managing discipline and instead uses it as a tactic to control the class. It works but it’s not a good method and chances are there will be some in the class who aren’t finding it funny at all.