What is this behaviour by teacher?

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Class of 9 and 10 year olds, about to go into lockdown, the class is talking about what it will be like and asking questions. Suddenly the teacher says out of the blue, first time anything like this has happened "and who will miss Charlie and his bad temper?"

Charlie is shocked and upset and the class sort of murmured "me" and Charlie's mother asks the teacher what was up when she saw her and the teacher said that she had spoken to Charlie and all was fine, apparently Charlie had lost his temper because someone had pushed him in the playground.

Then the next day Charlie comes out in floods of tears, saying that he had written down an instruction he thought had to be written down, the teacher had starting berating him and saying only he would do that, and encouraged the whole class to mock him, he had become upset at the berating and some of the class had laughed.

The teacher is normally fine.

@msbehavin it is difficult to say for sure from your posts how your students felt, but I do think you should read all the posts here explaining how just because the students laughed along and didn't complain didn't mean they had not been negatively affected. With humour and banter and teasing, you really do need to understand the person at the receiving end.

@ Hamhockandmash

I never said either of those things. I just said that you can’t be every child’s favourite teacher. Do you disagree?

And I never ‘take the piss’ which would be wrong. You are massively projecting. I suspect that you don’t much like any teacher based on your comments. I’m sorry you came across an awful teacher at school not doesn’t mean we are all monsters.

OP, I think you need to discuss this second incident with the teacher as you did the first time. From what Charlie has said, this does appear bullying. No child should be berated and singled out for a mistake. However, you need the teachers version of events and then make your judgement.
@msbehavin I think secondary teaching is completely different from primary. Most kids will get sarcasm etc. 9-10 year olds won't always. I think you are right about bondng with older kids this way, but I do think any form of targetted ribbing is a no no. I can't imagine that many children would particularly enjoy that, although there probably are some confident kids who could take it. I think taking the piss about teenagers as a whole group/indirectly isn't a problem.
I do wonder if this works both ways though. This sort of banter should be two way and there's a power imbalance. Do they tease back? I remember a French teacher who did this at school. She did get 'roasted' too. We loved her, but I think she struggled with discipline and got some inappropriate stuff said back in response.

@toocold54

There are some kids (my experience is secondary so don’t know about primary) who are tricky and gentle teasing actually builds a better bond.

I have a 15 year old girl in a class who is very difficult. All the other students hate her being in the class because of it. So I will often gently tease her and say luckily for ‘Sarah’ I am off next Thursday or if a new teacher starts I’ll say I’m sure Sarah will like her as much as she does me. “Sarah” has a slight smile on her face because I’m giving her the attention she wants but the rest of the class also feel better because I’m acknowledging the behaviour issues without impacting the entire lesson.

I don't think you are handling Sarah very well, sorry! If you read the posts on here by people who were singled out by teachers it might give you a bit more insight.

@Lalliella Perhaps it happened this week in France it did!!

I'm guessing from how you've told the story, you're a TA OP.

For me where the teacher has got this wrong is by bringing the class into it. That's not appropriate.

I don't buy the idea some have on here that there should be no gentle humour or daft comments in the classroom, but it needs to be well judged and handled with care. There are jokes that my older students make to me (and me them) after 2 years at GCSE that would be totally inappropriate to do with a Year 7 group, not because of content but because of age, maturity, the fact that for some fo my Y11s I've known them 5 years, the class has been together with me for 2 years etc.

It's possible to use humour and jest in their classroom without becoming one of those teachers who think they're cool/full of banter, but it has to be matched to the situation. In the OP's situation I don't think that's appropriate for a Year 5 class.

@daffodilsandprimroses

I don’t want there to be a pile on but a child from a loving, well adjusted background wouldn’t be 15 mins late every day.

I agree

@BensonStabler I am sorry all that happened to you, and really appreciate you posting, I think it helps people to know that there are usually things going on in the background

Teachers posting about how they are able to laugh with their students and never upset anyone but then refusing to accept that there is any validity in the stories on here from those kids who were devastated by this kind of 'fun' in class are a worry.

I am another one who was the subject of 'banter' from a teacher who I am sure would have sworn blind I was fine with it, but it crushed me and destroyed my self-esteem. They had literally no idea about my home life (and any teacher that says that they do with absolute certainty is delusional!) and probably would have been horrified to hear how often I cried over jokes they had made at my expense.

My teachers were popular and the 'banter' probably made their lives easier as it allowed them to relate to the members of the class who responded to that kind of interaction. But it made me dread certain subjects and ruined my confidence in my abilities and enjoyment of learning at an age where my self-esteem was already hanging by a thread.

If a teacher can read so many similar stories and still claim that they are somehow ensuring that doesn't happen suggests that they might be underestimating their impact on their most vulnerable students.

@BelleSausage now you’re projecting. I never said I didn’t like any teachers. I had some lovely ones. But the one who took the piss (My words, not yours) made me even more miserable but publicly humiliating when I was having a terrible time, all in the name of banter. I, like other posters on here, are trying to point out why this sort of banter can be damaging. I have not criticised you or your teaching. It’s not personal to you.

Im a secondary teacher and some teachers aren't very nice to children Im afraid; I don't thjnk it's done deliberately (most of the time) often it's just a lack of emotional intelligence. It baffles me why many parents just blindly take the side of the teacher. In this case, we just don't know - but I would be going to school to find out a bit more and raise concerns.

I remember one of my maths teachers in secondary loving a bit of “banter” about how crap I was at maths. The most memorable bit of “banter” was the time he called me and another pupil (who was a maths whizz) to his desk to hand back test papers. He, in a fit of inspired “banter” gave me the other pupil’s paper and her, mine. I saw the score and thought that, for once, I’d done really well. I had a brief moment of joy before he bellowed “wait a minute! I’ve mixed them up! As if LyndaSnellsSniff would EVER get a score like that!”

Cue much laughter from the rest of the class.

Bastard.

@Introvertedbuthappy

I had a teacher like misbehavin at secondary school. She was really popular because of her 'banter' but it really wasn't funny to me. I had a real fear of failure (result of verbal and emotional abuse at home) but presented in my life at school as a classic over-achiever. I had a good amount of friends, was well liked and appeared confident, so she probably felt I was a good target for banter. Once we were tasked with writing a 'brief summary' for homework and I instead wrote a multiple page analysis with quotes (I loved English at school). I remember her showing the class and from then on anyone going overboard to impress would be "pulling an intro" and everyone (including me) would laugh. Really though, with school being the one safe haven, and with that lesson once being my favourite, all it did was make me die a little inside that just like my Mum, everyone else thought I was pathetic, even to the point of my name being used to denote a stupid mistake. I'm sure everyone would think that I'm sensitive or pathetic to feel that way, but you really don't know what is going on in the lives of the children you teach (even if you think you do), so the safest thing to do is to actually create a safe and inclusive environment, rather than 'gently tease' or make children the butt of your jokes in a power dynamic where you hold all the cards.

I can relate to your post too!

BoyTree
I've had more issues with colleagues who misuse banter in the classroom than those who don't.

The trends in my experience usually end up with: some student vocally celebrating how awesome the banter teacher is, whilst others (and not always ones you'd expect) are less than positive, more issues of favouritism and students feeling like the rules are applied based on which students feed the teacher's ego, behaviour issues due to inconsistent behaviour management.

I'm not against humour in the classroom by the way, but in my experience there's problems when staff rely on banter to get the job done

(the child mentioned in my example is 13 and I've worked with her for 4 years), I think Charlie's age and the fact you are not the parent or hearing it just from Charlie, shows this is definitely out of order.

Utterly unprofessional behaviour. Even if Charlie is a PITA. They're 9 and 10 year-olds. This is bullying.

I used to teach teens and young adults, and msbehavin's post is so familiar. There's a teacher like that in every school. They congratulate themselves on being hilarious, irreverent, charismatic and having the most fun class. In reality, it's hugely one-sided and the students know that; any real piss-taking towards the teacher and they'll icily pull rank. Quiet students get even quieter. Everyone gets better at forcing a smile, because ha ha it's just a bit of banter, oh look at that frown, he didn't like that, did he? Everyone be kind to X today, he's come over all sensitive ha ha!

It's by no means the worst thing a teacher can do, but it's so self-serving and lazy. And the students aren't stupid: most of them can see what's really a passive aggressive complaint (oh, look everyone, X has forgotten his book again, I'm really cool so I'm not going to tell him off, but I will just mention it a few dozen times ha ha!), and when an insecure teacher just wants to feel popular and get laughs.

But most teachers don't know their students as well as they'd like to imagine, and this kind of hilarious ribbing/running joke/banter can be wretched for someone who's having a rough time. I get that it's not done in malice, but the usual defence (it's just a bit of fun! kids need to be resilient! snowflakes etc etc) just shows how tone-deaf some people are, and desperate to project a certain persona even if it does screw some students over.

The OP's example sounds more like a really pissed off teacher who's being openly hostile, though.

How on earth do the Charlies and Sarahs cope in a job ,I wonder?

katakata
Your post sounds like you've seen some of the colleagues I've had to have diplomatic conversations with.

How on earth do the Charlies and Sarahs cope in a job ,I wonder?
By the time they have jobs they will be adults.

Let's stop holding 9 and 10 year olds to adult standards of maturity, especially in situations where the adults seem like they're not behaving to the standard some expect from children.

OP, you really do seem to have created a teacher bashing thread. As a TA, you are a professional. You need to address this with the teacher in question. If that is impossible or doesn't resolve the situation, follow the school's whistle blowing policy.

As a teacher, like all teachers, I make thousands of decisions every day. Can I guarantee that not one of them will unnecessarily upset a child? Of course not. Jack calling out again? Do I ignore, tell him off, or joke with him? All could be damaging. I have to try to make the best decision possible, in the moment, while trying not to forget what I was in the middle of teaching them.

Also, for all the posters who asked whether the students joke about me back, yes they do. They know I have a big sweet tooth and tease me about it. They know some words that I always spell wrong and tease me about it. They know I can't kick a ball in a straight line and tease me about it. All are done respectfully.

I am sorry to all those who have been affected by teacher behaviour.

@LyndaSnellsSniff

I remember one of my maths teachers in secondary loving a bit of “banter” about how crap I was at maths. The most memorable bit of “banter” was the time he called me and another pupil (who was a maths whizz) to his desk to hand back test papers. He, in a fit of inspired “banter” gave me the other pupil’s paper and her, mine. I saw the score and thought that, for once, I’d done really well. I had a brief moment of joy before he bellowed “wait a minute! I’ve mixed them up! As if LyndaSnellsSniff would EVER get a score like that!”

Cue much laughter from the rest of the class.

Bastard.

That's outright horrible. I am not defending things like that. For clarity, just on the off-chance anyone assumes that I think that is OK, it's not. That is bullying and had no possible benefit to any child.

Your post sounds like you've seen some of the colleagues I've had to have diplomatic conversations with.

I was reading Nick Horby's 'About A Boy' the other day, and there's a bit in it where Marcus (new student at a secondary school, getting bullied and dealing with a very depressed mother at home) has a teacher taking the piss. All very gentle, I'm sure: he's been absent-mindedly humming, and she makes a joke about him being crazy to enliven a dull class discussion.

'Everyone turned round and looked at him; he looked at Ms Maguire, but she had this big forced grin on and she wouldn't catch his eye. More laughter. He knew what she was doing and why, and he hated her.'

No surprise to hear that Nick Hornby used to be a secondary school teacher! It's such a type.

@solidaritea

OP, you really do seem to have created a teacher bashing thread. As a TA, you are a professional. You need to address this with the teacher in question. If that is impossible or doesn't resolve the situation, follow the school's whistle blowing policy.

As a teacher, like all teachers, I make thousands of decisions every day. Can I guarantee that not one of them will unnecessarily upset a child? Of course not. Jack calling out again? Do I ignore, tell him off, or joke with him? All could be damaging. I have to try to make the best decision possible, in the moment, while trying not to forget what I was in the middle of teaching them.

Also, for all the posters who asked whether the students joke about me back, yes they do. They know I have a big sweet tooth and tease me about it. They know some words that I always spell wrong and tease me about it. They know I can't kick a ball in a straight line and tease me about it. All are done respectfully.

I am sorry to all those who have been affected by teacher behaviour.

@solidariteaI think your post is interesting as I wouldn't say this is a teacher bashing thread. People have picked up on one particular thing - teasing - and explained how some teachers might benefit from seeing things from a different perspective.

Anyway - what is your take on what I wrote in the OP, the involving of the whole class, it didn't seem to work the first time, as the classmates showed support of Charlie, but it worked the second time as more people laughed along with the teacher? Do you not think that might be stepping over the line a bit?

@Hamhockandmash

It is hard not to take this personally as behaviour management style is so individual and takes years to perfect.

What you essentially implied in your posts is that any teacher who has a joke with their class or a totally appropriate use of humour in their classroom is a bully.

As a teacher who uses humour as part of a ‘warm but strict approach’ I am very much offended. Especially by the idea that I should strive to be like by all my students. If I spent my time focusing on that we would not achieve anything in the lesson. Because for some kids the only teacher that they like is one who allows them to do whatever they want.

I work extremely hard to promote positive and supportive learning environments for my students. And some of that does involve relieving the tension of high drama situations with levity.

Often the difference between ‘Oh, Dan. Not again. And ‘Dan that is the second time and I will now have to put your name on the board for a warning’ is the difference between the kid accepting the warning or starting a stand up row that take ten minutes and a member of SLT to diffuse.

Is this bullying?