What is this behaviour by teacher?

[accesstheinternet]

Class of 9 and 10 year olds, about to go into lockdown, the class is talking about what it will be like and asking questions. Suddenly the teacher says out of the blue, first time anything like this has happened "and who will miss Charlie and his bad temper?"

Charlie is shocked and upset and the class sort of murmured "me" and Charlie's mother asks the teacher what was up when she saw her and the teacher said that she had spoken to Charlie and all was fine, apparently Charlie had lost his temper because someone had pushed him in the playground.

Then the next day Charlie comes out in floods of tears, saying that he had written down an instruction he thought had to be written down, the teacher had starting berating him and saying only he would do that, and encouraged the whole class to mock him, he had become upset at the berating and some of the class had laughed.

The teacher is normally fine.

@msbehavin I think that is pretty horrible actually and does not make a warm environment at all you make everyone laugh by singling someone out and pointing out what they do wrong to everyone how do you know they don't then tease the child and make them feel inferior or stupid or weird think you need to change your waY of teaching it could be called low level bullying and put the child off you and your lessons and the subjects you teach altogether kids have it hard enough as it is in secondary without teachers joining in

I very strongly suspect that there is a big difference between what @msbehavin means and what other posters assume she means. I can't, of course know for sure, but neither than the posters suggesting she should question her career on the basis of a post on mumsnet.

There is also a world of difference between using sarcasm/teasing with secondary students and using it with young children, whose developmental understanding of sarcasm and teasing will not yet have developed (develops around age 8).

I cross my fingers when one Y6 student does long division. Why? They were finding it hard to remember all of the steps and getting stressed out. I cared enough to help them to understand, and wanted to relieve her stress with a joke, which was to cross my fingers before hearing her answers. We practised every day for a month and she finally got there. She was thrilled. She would have given up without the joke. I was teasing her, but it was a positive.

[quote toocold54]**@msbehavin it is hard for other people to understand if they aren’t teachers or haven’t been in a classroom setting properly.[/quote]
I think there's very few of us who haven't been in a classroom setting, not sure what you mean by "properly" though

And @msbehavin, your supposed banter sounds like bullying to me.

@SD1978

So this all happened last year?

Perhaps it happened this week in France.

@msbehavin just because you have never had an official complaint doesn't mean you should continue doing it and does not mean you have not upset irritated or embarrassed the child either kids don't often tell their parents everything but I can assure you if my child ever does tell me something like this about a teacher no matter how much "with love" "gentle teasing" or what ever you want to call it is involved you Will get a formal complaint because its unprofessional and you cannot claim to know the kids so well you know exactly how they will take it, you have no idea what is going on in their personal lives and at home so consider your actions and reread what bullying can be.

@msbehavin

I'm a teacher (in secondary) and good natured, gentle teasing of students and their foibles is part of creating a warm classroom environment. I will rib kids for always being late, always forgetting things - along the lines of declaring it to be a miracle if a kid who's always late turns up on time, telling everyone not to 'do an insert kid name here' if there's a running joke about a particular child in the class who's always doing something wrong, etc. It's all done in love, the kids know I don't mean anything by it, and they love having a giggle at themselves and each other.

I'm wondering whether what Charlie (presumably your child) has reported back to you is a misunderstanding of a teacher trying to make a joke to show Charlie that their earlier temper tantrum was forgiven - 'we won't miss Charlie's temper, will we', said in a kind voice with a wink and a little pat on the shoulder would be the circumstances I'd expect this comment to have been said in. Likewise with the writing down the wrong thing - if I had a child in my class who always does things like that, I'd probably make a joke of it too- 'oh dear, never mind, trust you Charlie!' - said in a lighthearted and affectionate tone, showing it didn't matter and that I found their behaviour endearing.

I'm wondering whether Charlie has misinterpreted the teacher's behaviour and has read what was meant to be kindness as being nasty. Some kids really don't understand sarcasm, for example. If being unkind is totally out of character for the teacher, I'd be more inclined to think this is the explanation.

I am wondering why you're asking this now, as it was clearly an incident that happened a few weeks ago (before lockdown). Also, if it was a few days before lockdown, do bear in mind stress and anxiety levels amongst both teachers and children would have been high. Perhaps the teacher did snap. Perhaps Charlie overreacted. The truth could be somewhere in the middle. I'd contact the teacher, and arrange a meeting to discuss Charlie's feelings about the incidents. Even if it's all been a misunderstanding, the teacher needs to know how Charlie interpreted the comments so that they can adapt their communication with him accordingly in future.

Your post has really upset me. I was the butt of running jokes by a teacher. It destroyed my confidence. I had an adult diagnosis of autism which explained some of the behaviours that were such a “joke” to them.

Your “good natured teasing” might be fun for the other students not being teased, and for some with the ability to handle it, but might be hell for others with undiagnosed conditions or difficult home lives.

To am a teacher of nearly 40 years and l think the treatment of Charlie is totally inappropriate. Teasing a child about his temper is not on. Some fun in the class is always welcome but not singling out one child . And even if Charlie is a difficult child to teach..we all have those..all the more reason not to focus on that as it will only make things worse.
As for the teasing of Secondary students l think it's a bit different as they are older and more in tune with what's happening. I know one of my ds loved a few teachers who did that even when he was the one in question but he enjoys messing. Some students may have been more sensitive.

But 9 and 10 year olds..no way!

I am another who believes msbehavin is deluded if she thinks none of the pupils she teases with love feel humiliated,embarrassed or bullied by this.You are neither their mother nor their friend and this behaviour strikes me as unprofessional .

[quote toocold54]@msbehavin it is hard for other people to understand if they aren’t teachers or haven’t been in a classroom setting properly.[/quote]
Exactly. Thank you!

For all of you calling me a bully. The type of teasing I’m talking about is when a kid who is 15 minutes late every day because he can’t get up on time manages to get in on time for once, and I say ‘oh my goodness it’s a miracle!’ when he walks in the classroom and he laughs and says ‘I know miss, guess what, I actually set my alarm for once!’ and we all have a good laugh. How on earth such interactions could ever be considered bullying is beyond me.

I would never be unkind to a student or make fun of them in front of the class in a way that I knew would hurt their feelings or make them feel small.

There is a world of difference between what I mean when it comes to teasing and what other people are accusing me of.

I can’t believe how many posters just seem to always want to assume the worst of teachers. For goodness’ sake, if I hated kids, I wouldn’t work with them!!

I think @msbehavin's post isnt hugely helpful as they are a secondary school teacher. Its interesting though that someone says I think the teacher has got this wrong and then they say oh yes well everyone is vile to teachers, its not fair etc. Because that does definitely prove they're a teacher.

I had a teacher like misbehavin at secondary school. She was really popular because of her 'banter' but it really wasn't funny to me. I had a real fear of failure (result of verbal and emotional abuse at home) but presented in my life at school as a classic over-achiever. I had a good amount of friends, was well liked and appeared confident, so she probably felt I was a good target for banter. Once we were tasked with writing a 'brief summary' for homework and I instead wrote a multiple page analysis with quotes (I loved English at school). I remember her showing the class and from then on anyone going overboard to impress would be "pulling an intro" and everyone (including me) would laugh. Really though, with school being the one safe haven, and with that lesson once being my favourite, all it did was make me die a little inside that just like my Mum, everyone else thought I was pathetic, even to the point of my name being used to denote a stupid mistake. I'm sure everyone would think that I'm sensitive or pathetic to feel that way, but you really don't know what is going on in the lives of the children you teach (even if you think you do), so the safest thing to do is to actually create a safe and inclusive environment, rather than 'gently tease' or make children the butt of your jokes in a power dynamic where you hold all the cards.

Seeing other people's stories here is a bit cathartic… who knew how many of us there were out there who put a good-natured face on our upset when we were the butt of teachers' "running jokes"?

Sorry, in response to OP, the behaviour of that teacher is appalling. Children who need support with managing emotions generally don't have the best self-esteem anyway, or the most friends, so singling them out and belittling them is unacceptable. That is a completely different issue to how disruptive Charlie is. I doubt belittling him and making him the butt of the class jokes will improve his behaviour and will instead knock his self-esteem further,

@IsIgnoranceBliss - I’m so very sorry for your bad experiences of teachers who didn’t take the time to get to know and understand you.

However, not all teachers are the same as the ones you had.

Teaching has moved on a lot in the past twenty years. Our awareness of children’s emotional needs in particular is streets ahead of when I was at school.

I know each and every student I teach very well. I know about their home lives. I know if they have any additional needs and what difficulties that entails for them. I tailor all my interactions with the children I teach based on what I know about their backgrounds. I know who can’t handle banter or sarcasm and obviously don’t use those types of humour with them or single them out as I know they’d hate it. I do know what I’m doing and how to handle a class. I’ve had a lot of years’ experience. I appreciate this discussion has resurfaced bad memories for you, but I don’t appreciate being accused of being something I’m not.

I’m a highly trained, highly experienced professional who loves the kids I teach. I’m not a bully. I’m not a monster. Please stop calling me one.

Maybe we could just discuss the OP about a 9/10 year old boy rather than @msbehavin's (rather questionable) methods with 15 year olds? I just think its irrelevant to the OP anyway, its like you came on here to find a thread about teachers to get offended about!

@msbehavin, I get you.

I have 2 DCs and both of them have absolutely loved the teachers that teased them gently. One was in year 1 and one was in year 6. It allowed them to explore their vulnerability, self deprecation, losing with grace, and the boundaries of acceptable banter between adults and children. I think most children know when the teasing is done out of love. They are both really well adjusted and very funny DCs.

My late father was a teacher and also teased his students. The turn out at his funeral showed how loved he was.

Not all teasing amounts to bullying.

@msbehavin
I'm a teacher (in secondary) and good natured, gentle teasing of students and their foibles is part of creating a warm classroom environment. I will rib kids for always being late, always forgetting things - along the lines of declaring it to be a miracle if a kid who's always late turns up on time, telling everyone not to 'do an insert kid name here' if there's a running joke about a particular child in the class who's always doing something wrong, etc. It's all done in love, the kids know I don't mean anything by it, and they love having a giggle at themselves and each other
In other words, you are a bully. A bully teaching children how to bully other children. Bullies always say "they don't mean anything by it" or "it's just banter"

I'm a teacher and I disagree with msbehavin's "gentle teasing" in class. Some children would feel very uncomfortable with this, even when it's being directed at someone else. Not everyone finds teasing normal or appropriate, and not all families use teasing as part of their everyday interactions.

As teachers we may care very much about the children in our classes, but we can never claim to understand everything that's happening in their lives to the extent that "we know", without question, which particular children would "enjoy" being made fun of. As people have said on this thread, teasing can feel very much like bullying. The very fact that some posters are actually stating that this behaviour from teachers made them feel uncomfortable or picked on in school should be enough to make people realise that it's never acceptable in a classroom.

As for Charlie, if I were his parent I would be complaining about this comment. It doesn't matter if he does "have a temper". Setting the class against him is not ok, even if you are "just teasing".

[quote msbehavin]@IsIgnoranceBliss - I’m so very sorry for your bad experiences of teachers who didn’t take the time to get to know and understand you.

However, not all teachers are the same as the ones you had.

Teaching has moved on a lot in the past twenty years. Our awareness of children’s emotional needs in particular is streets ahead of when I was at school.

I know each and every student I teach very well. I know about their home lives. I know if they have any additional needs and what difficulties that entails for them. I tailor all my interactions with the children I teach based on what I know about their backgrounds. I know who can’t handle banter or sarcasm and obviously don’t use those types of humour with them or single them out as I know they’d hate it. I do know what I’m doing and how to handle a class. I’ve had a lot of years’ experience. I appreciate this discussion has resurfaced bad memories for you, but I don’t appreciate being accused of being something I’m not.

I’m a highly trained, highly experienced professional who loves the kids I teach. I’m not a bully. I’m not a monster. Please stop calling me one.[/quote]
You remind me of my favourite secondary school teacher. His mild teasing of individuals including myself created a rapport between him and our class which other teachers failed to achieve. Many years later I am still benefiting from the lessons he was able to teach us thanks to that rapport and understanding he had.

What utter bs you cannot possibly know everything about the children you teach or their home lives lots of family secrets rows and problems would never be discussed with teachers ever. Deluded definitely the examples you give are singling out and bullying. I knew a boy that was always late always said he couldn't get up but actually was forced by parents who to everyone else seemed perfect to do a million errands before school and not allowed to leave house until they were done. Noone ever knew, nothing was ever done noone would ever have guessed either.

@Introvertedbuthappy - I agree - that behaviour by your teacher was unacceptable and uncalled for. I don’t ever use students’ work or academic prowess as the basis for jokes. I don’t ever call students out in front of the class for making mistakes. That would be cruel. I’m not a cruel person and I don’t appreciate being called one.

I’m bowing out of this discussion now. Teachers aren’t perfect and I wouldn’t claim them to be. But the level of personal vitriol being directed at me is a level of nastiness I don’t need to listen to after a tough term at school. There’s clearly a fundamental misunderstanding on here about the classroom environment I’ve tried to describe, and I can’t be bothered to keep explaining myself to people whose only experience of teaching is having once been at school themselves.

I can’t be bothered to keep explaining myself to people whose only experience of teaching bullying is having once been at school been bullied themselves.

FTFY.

@Stoppissingonmyheather

What utter bs you cannot possibly know everything about the children you teach or their home lives lots of family secrets rows and problems would never be discussed with teachers ever. Deluded definitely the examples you give are singling out and bullying. I knew a boy that was always late always said he couldn't get up but actually was forced by parents who to everyone else seemed perfect to do a million errands before school and not allowed to leave house until they were done. Noone ever knew, nothing was ever done noone would ever have guessed either.

Learning how to deal with gentle teasing and ribbing is an essential social skill. Everyone will, at some point in their life, have to deal with ribbing, sarcasm etc. I think teachers are absolutely right to incorporate some gentle teasing of their students in their teaching methods.

To say that teachers shouldn’t do this because some vulnerable children will react negatively, is reductio ad absurdum. It’s like saying some children are dyslexic, therefore no one should learn how to read.

Children who have chaotic homes lives will actually benefit more than most from being exposed to teasing in a loving environment, where they get to learn that gentle mocking does not have to lead to corporeal punishment etc.

Ribbing/teasing is not essential, but reading is. A teacher should be teaching reading, not how to cope with being teased. What a ridiculous argument.
Yes, socially it is useful to be able to cope with ribbing/sarcasm etc. In a power dynamic where responding in kind would get you into serious trouble though, that's different.

I'm not saying teachers can't use humour or be joyless (I am a teacher). I'm just saying that (from my own personal experience) making children the butt of your jokes is hurtful to some children and unnecessary, as shown here by the OP where presumably, Charlie didn't find being publicly humiliated as funny as his teacher and the rest of the class.

@msbehavin - do the kids tease you back?