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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Report that says Institutional Racism doesn't exist and more ...

437 replies

Dustyboots · 01/04/2021 10:04

Is no one else angry about this?

I can't find any other threads about it.

What is going on?

And the bit that says the “slave period”, was not just about “profit and suffering” and argues that the era was also about how “culturally African people transformed themselves into a re-modelled African/Britain”.

Are people unaware of this? Or do we just no longer care ...

OP posts:
MarieIVanArkleStinks · 01/04/2021 19:25

@Crumpsly

I think socioeconomic class is more influential than race in the UK. Institutional classism definitely exists and isn’t really challenged.
In some cases I suspect they may be inextricably linked.
Watermelon1234 · 01/04/2021 19:25

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

The existence of class discrimination does not mean that racial discrimination also does not also exist. Some people would be unlucky enough to suffer both.

The proportion of black people in the U.K. was 3% at last census according to a quick google.
By any standard 0 black chief execs of FTSE 100 companies is under representation.

Even if black people were not applying for headteacher jobs rather than being turned down the reason for that lack of applications might also be racism ie they feel they would not succeed so don't bother or they don't have the career support to get to that position to be able to supply (the same argument gets applied to Oxbridge admissions)

But no one is worried about the over representation (per average population) of black people in football, the music industry and on the tv especially in advertising.

When focus is on a certain area where it is lacking, for balance and fairness you’d have to look at why there is an over representation in those areas to take this subject seriously and understand the full picture.

I don’t know the answer but some people want to brush everything under the carpet as they’re scared to discuss things in the open.

Smurfsarethefuture · 01/04/2021 19:32

I really hope that some of you have some space in your lives where you can put this aside at the moment for the own mental well-being. I always saw racism as a white person dumping their problem on a black person to carry because structurally, they could. That is it, to me.

Take care of yourselves x🙂

Smurfsarethefuture · 01/04/2021 19:33

For your own mental ...

Dustyboots · 01/04/2021 19:33

Is there an over representation of black people in tv - I really don't think so. And in advertising?

the music industry? I wasn't aware that there was an over representation of black people there either ...

Football - maybe. Perhaps. I don't know. But that's one small area of work - compared to thousands of others.

OP posts:
worriedatthemoment · 01/04/2021 19:35

@CovoidOfAllHumanity yes I get that to a degree but same can be said for my boys who are white, they will never likely get a job for top ftse firms or headteacher either as we come from a council estate , deprived area , mediocre state school, can't afford to support them through uni.
If population is 3 % ( although i suspect higher now) then I am not sure you would see 3% in jobs as would say not all would go down this , at best 2%
Whilst I have no doubt racism is to play in some instances I think class and poverty is also a huge influence , a private education opens many more doors
I have friends who private educate and not totally about better education but its also about networking and knowing the right people to open the right doors.
I think its right not to assume its not always racism that means someone doesn't get a job , but prob more ethnic minoroties will also fall into this bracket as well.
Personally I think all cv's should be nameless and void of gender , ethnicity etc and be just the relevant details like qualifications , experience etc

Kamr123 · 01/04/2021 19:38

@Crumpsly

I think socioeconomic class is more influential than race in the UK. Institutional classism definitely exists and isn’t really challenged.
Agree to an extent. But when you walk through the door for an interview, class is not what they see first.

Unfortunately, prejudice, bias, stereotyping at that point, has already preceded any ideologies based on class.

Knitterbabe · 01/04/2021 19:46

@Dustyboots
Watch the adverts on tv any evening; it’s pretty obvious.
Just like the cover of any prospectus these days which will feature black, white and Asian children, even if there are only a couple in the school.

Cwassonk · 01/04/2021 19:48

I'm furious at this report. I only needed to attend one 'women of colour' talk at my workplace to realise the range and depth of racism experienced by the women. The report is a white wash in many senses of the word.

PineappleCakes · 01/04/2021 19:51

PP asked where are all the other ethnic minorities - staying quiet, hiding, trying to quietly get on with their lives and avoid racist attacks is the answer. Have any of you noticed the massive increase of racial attacks on Brits of East Asian descent? Especially in the last 12 months? People being spat at, jumped on and punched in the street, the attacks go on...

Indian and Chinese minorities in this country are also under the "model minority" stereotype - great students, no protests, stay in that box and that box only.

As for class being a greater factor than skin colour - I would say bollocks to that. Personally, no one's ever shouted abuse at me because they don't like my brand of supermarket bag or because I "didn't belong" at the National Trust properly - I've been abused because people take one look at my skin colour and run riot with their racist stereotypes and confidence that I can't win a fight against them.

As always, there's never a good discussion on MN about race because most MNetters don't ever experience, never mind have to think about, racial prejudice.

minou123 · 01/04/2021 19:52

Football is not a great example to use.

Is there an over representation of black people in football?
Players - maybe
Management, Coaches, Chief Executives - absolutely not. I would struggle to name one.

Also, due to overt racism black football players experience, highly publicised campaigns to stop racism in football are needed.
It what other profession do people (fans/customers) call black people the 'n' word, throw bananas at them and make monkey noises?

DeeCeeCherry · 01/04/2021 19:54

I don't want to specifically address the lack of awareness here and there on thread.

But homophobic, misogynist, sexist Tony Sewell, who has said some very dubious things in the past, had input into this Report.

He is a stooge who is where he is because he plays the game well, of saying exactly what racists want to hear.

Some people just choose to be the "Gotcha!" for racists to roll out "see? He's Black & says we aren't racist, so that means you can't say we are".

Sewell isn't the first and won't be the last. It's a lucrative game after all, and also a fast way to climb the ladder.

Day to day life is my focus, as opposed to a dumb report. Today Pimlico Academy students, and the decent minded Teachers who supported them in standing up for their rights, won a victory against the headmaster who banned Afro hairstyles, set rules around wearing of Hijab, would not commemorate Black History Month, and flew Union Jack at school.

The Headmaster learned a lesson that he and his mindset type isn't as important as he thinks it is.

Along the lines of what Toni Morrison said, one of the functions of racism is to keep you distracted, keep you talking on and on about it, justifying why it's wrong, arguing about it.

Yes it needs to be discussed but we should never be so distracted and stuck in a loop that we don't keep standing up against racism in the real world, taking the powers that be to task locally and nationally.

The Pimlico students won their fight against racism. In the same week this whitewash of a Report came out. That's important.

This Report is not the be all and end all.

A pp (sorry, won't scroll back far to see who ) mentioned Black people shouldn't be giving their children the "victim" talk.

3 of my nephews are mixed-race. Their Mums (bar one) had this 'we are the world/if you're nice people will be nice/this isn't America you know it's not racist here' mindset.

Until their sons grew up and weren't seen as awww cute curly haired little boys anymore. Instead, seen as young Black men. Swift awareness that yes, there ARE ignorant people out there that will hate you solely because of your race and colour.

They, and others I know of actually, have issues and tension with their mother regarding this. For obvious reasons.

& Also an article I read by a widower, White male, raising a mixed race son who said when his son reached his teens he found himself "shocked that my son was treated as a Black man. It just hadn't crossed my mind that this could be a thing".

For mono-racial Black people it's definitely not sensible to never have a talk about racism with children. Or, the world will let them know and their shock will be greater.

UK has a Right Wing government and media which also fuels racism. There's no hiding from that.

Having a talk about what your children will face in this world, being knowledgeable about it giving them strategies against it, listening to them, being culturally aware, able to defend them when racism comes up at school etc, is common sense.

Nothing to do with victimhood at all. It's called being realistic. & having life sense.

Captpike · 01/04/2021 19:55

And yet when sainsbury's put out an an advert featuring a black family at Christmas, they got complaints. Including on here.

OverTheRainbow88 · 01/04/2021 19:57

They should have released this report this morning

Kamr123 · 01/04/2021 20:04

[quote Knitterbabe]@Dustyboots
Watch the adverts on tv any evening; it’s pretty obvious.
Just like the cover of any prospectus these days which will feature black, white and Asian children, even if there are only a couple in the school.[/quote]
So, are you saying this is a bad thing? I am not sure what you are stating that it was okay for the school to show a white washed depiction of the demographic of children, but when they are actually represented it's an issue?

Yes, like you said, in some fields like sport - depending on the sport that is - there can be an over-representation, as in football and american foot ball, and in others there is an over-representation of white. e.g. hockey, skiing, darts, snooker, horse riding, golfing, swimming, archery, fencing, etc.

However, let us not forget that where the areas of influence and power are gathered, they are limited and highly 'under-represented'. Universities, financial institutions like banks, senior positions in education, law and governance. Take your pick, look at the statistics and make a better balanced judgement on the aspect of 'over-representation.' in the UK.

PRsecrets · 01/04/2021 20:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Zotter · 01/04/2021 20:07

“A government appointed panel of people who don’t believe structural racism exists found that structural racism doesn’t exist”

Report that says Institutional Racism doesn't exist and more ...
Echobelly · 01/04/2021 20:08

It is a staggeringly blantant case of gov finding a few BAME spokespeople who agree with them, are on record saying that institutional racism is a myth and that issues of BAME people are just 'brought on themselves' in some way. And then getting them to write an inquiry that completely contradicts what, as far as I can tell, are the views and experiences of the vast majority of of BAME people in this country. It's vile and shows utter contempt towards the population.

PicsInRed · 01/04/2021 20:10

@Dustyboots

Is there an over representation of black people in tv - I really don't think so. And in advertising?

the music industry? I wasn't aware that there was an over representation of black people there either ...

Football - maybe. Perhaps. I don't know. But that's one small area of work - compared to thousands of others.

Re: tv, I'm guessing they're thinking of the Tesco lady and and was it Morrisons or something? One of the Christmas ad families? People got angry about overrepresentation (to be clear, I'm not saying the pp was angry) because they saw something on tv that they didn't usually see.

The irony.

PRsecrets · 01/04/2021 20:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kamr123 · 01/04/2021 20:17

@DeeCeeCherry

I don't want to specifically address the lack of awareness here and there on thread.

But homophobic, misogynist, sexist Tony Sewell, who has said some very dubious things in the past, had input into this Report.

He is a stooge who is where he is because he plays the game well, of saying exactly what racists want to hear.

Some people just choose to be the "Gotcha!" for racists to roll out "see? He's Black & says we aren't racist, so that means you can't say we are".

Sewell isn't the first and won't be the last. It's a lucrative game after all, and also a fast way to climb the ladder.

Day to day life is my focus, as opposed to a dumb report. Today Pimlico Academy students, and the decent minded Teachers who supported them in standing up for their rights, won a victory against the headmaster who banned Afro hairstyles, set rules around wearing of Hijab, would not commemorate Black History Month, and flew Union Jack at school.

The Headmaster learned a lesson that he and his mindset type isn't as important as he thinks it is.

Along the lines of what Toni Morrison said, one of the functions of racism is to keep you distracted, keep you talking on and on about it, justifying why it's wrong, arguing about it.

Yes it needs to be discussed but we should never be so distracted and stuck in a loop that we don't keep standing up against racism in the real world, taking the powers that be to task locally and nationally.

The Pimlico students won their fight against racism. In the same week this whitewash of a Report came out. That's important.

This Report is not the be all and end all.

A pp (sorry, won't scroll back far to see who ) mentioned Black people shouldn't be giving their children the "victim" talk.

3 of my nephews are mixed-race. Their Mums (bar one) had this 'we are the world/if you're nice people will be nice/this isn't America you know it's not racist here' mindset.

Until their sons grew up and weren't seen as awww cute curly haired little boys anymore. Instead, seen as young Black men. Swift awareness that yes, there ARE ignorant people out there that will hate you solely because of your race and colour.

They, and others I know of actually, have issues and tension with their mother regarding this. For obvious reasons.

& Also an article I read by a widower, White male, raising a mixed race son who said when his son reached his teens he found himself "shocked that my son was treated as a Black man. It just hadn't crossed my mind that this could be a thing".

For mono-racial Black people it's definitely not sensible to never have a talk about racism with children. Or, the world will let them know and their shock will be greater.

UK has a Right Wing government and media which also fuels racism. There's no hiding from that.

Having a talk about what your children will face in this world, being knowledgeable about it giving them strategies against it, listening to them, being culturally aware, able to defend them when racism comes up at school etc, is common sense.

Nothing to do with victimhood at all. It's called being realistic. & having life sense.

Hear! Hear!
Heatherjayne1972 · 01/04/2021 20:22

Mmm.

Was this report produced by black/ brown people or an all white group?

It matters because
numerous micro aggressions happen every single day which white people just don’t see

If it was only white people creating this report I can how they got to the conclusion they did

worriedatthemoment · 01/04/2021 20:22

@PRsecrets exactly I agree

worriedatthemoment · 01/04/2021 20:24

@PRsecrets Les Ferdinand holds a high position in a football club and he is a black player and there are a few coaches and managers now as well, now that black players are getting older shall we say some are going into management so it is slowly happening.

Watermelon1234 · 01/04/2021 20:24

“So, are you saying this is a bad thing?”

I don’t think it’s a bad thing per se, but it feels contrived or forced.