Report that says Institutional Racism doesn't exist and more ...

[Dustyboots]

Is no one else angry about this?

I can't find any other threads about it.

What is going on?

And the bit that says the “slave period”, was not just about “profit and suffering” and argues that the era was also about how “culturally African people transformed themselves into a re-modelled African/Britain”.

Are people unaware of this? Or do we just no longer care ...

I don't think Fluffyhippo's posts were pulled because of the white saviour point. I saw the first one where Fluffyhippo called someone an idiot and I had a feeling that would be pulled if reported. I didn't get the chance to read the other pulled ones before they were deleted so not sure what was said there.

I wish whole posts weren't deleted because it also removes valid points made - perhaps offensive words can be redacted from posts instead.

@Barbie222

The report is pretty close to a dog whistle, and the attitudes on this thread show exactly why Boris is letting it stand - there's a lot of votes here.

He wanted some votes, but risks ruining his legacy if he stands by this report.

What legacy? Again, is it a surprise based on who Boris is?

What legacy? His legacy of being a racist? The report absolutely reinforces his legacy.

Yes I know. That's why I'm asking. A pp says his legacy will be ruined if he stands by this report.

He's already a known racist so what legacy will be ruined?

Typical newspaper headlines yet again
In many jobs class probably comes into it a lot , how many jobs are not what not you know but who you know

No @DynamoKev

I remember reading about this story in the local papers as I think he is a manager in Blackheath but the story I read was slightly different. I thought he was pulled over whilst driving a BMW and the question was how could he afford such a car.

Listening to that video, clearly the police had background info to get a warrant for his mum's property and I was thinking that, as a btl landlord, was there a confusion caused by the job/second income/tenants at his properties who may be had something illegal but as his name was registered he was the one they looked into. I genuinely don't understand the legal aid part so perhaps the properties are in his partners name.

Either way, something doesn't add up. As a local bank manager in that area he probably knows the local police for security issues (local police in regular contact with bank managers) as part of his job. To be able to get a warrant to search him and his mum's homes for a firearm - a completely unique issue suggests someone said something//mistaken identity but when they looked up his details it would have shown who he was, no prior record, etc. If the properties weren't registered to him but the money was in an account then maybe that raised flags.

Either way the whole thing seems bizarre as he is an articulate, calm, man who I felt for. They seem a nice family.

On the matter of the black, Caribbean boys in schools those lads are working so hard. There are community groups doing after school clubs and some great initiatives set up by young black grads. This is not new but I feel for the mums working so hard to keep the boys focused when the culture around them is so geared up to distract them.

@whenthebellsring

Yes I know. That's why I'm asking. A pp says his legacy will be ruined if he stands by this report.

He's already a known racist so what legacy will be ruined?

Well said.

That famed anti- racist Boris 'picaninnies and letterboxes' Johnson

This is exactly the report he wanted. He commissioned Sewell exactly for this reason.

The only thing that surprises me is how brazen and direct it is and that they have the balls to publish it during George Floyd's trial and whilst vaccine take up in ethnic minority communities is so low.

That (and the response to this thread) worries me because it presumably means he is certain of a warm reception from most of the British public who are happy to be reassured that they do not in fact have any White Privilege and institutional racism does not actually exist.

Fortunately it is as they suspected all along that some of those ethnics don't try to help themselves.
Living in Bradford is a far worse disadvantage than being black or Asian and that's official.

I will say as someone searching for a job a few now say especially seeking candidates from certain backgrounds , can't think how its worded now
But I live in an area where it is more white people so when jobs come up most candidates will be white , so I think actually being non white will be an advantage in some of these jobs and I am not sure of that feels right either
Maybe cv/ applications should just be candidate 1,2,3 no name and no mention of gender, ethnicity etc as to me that seems only fair way to get a job with no one knowing anything about candidate other than what matters and that is relevant experience / qualifications for the job

@jessstan2

Bollocks to that. Institutional racism is alive and well, ask any police officer! It's not as bad as it was thankfully but still exists.

Is it the whole police force though or a few rogue officers? I don’t think you can compare our police force to that in America who are definitely racist.

@skirk64

The report is surprisingly sensible. The main points I got from it are:

• Britain is a model example of a country where minorities are treated well.
• We shouldn't automatically assume that where minorities are disadvantaged, the cause is racism.
• Movements like Black Lives Matter make people think the problem is much worse than it is.
• Black African and Asian children are better students than white children, in fact only Black Caribbean child perform worse than white children.
• British history in terms of Empire and slavery isn't automatically negative in every aspect.
• To all intents and purposes, there is no evidence of "institutional racism" - most people who throw that term about don't actually understand what it means.
• There is a large element who want to present the current situation as being no improvement over that of the 1970s, when in actual fact things are drastically improved.

I'm actually quite impressed with how reasoned the report is. It looks at the facts and takes the emotions out of it, which is exactly what it should be doing.

I hope this is a sarcastic comment. Empire and slavery isn't automatically negative? 30 - 60 million people died during the slave trade, and you say is wasn't negative!

The Government always trying to change history with it's own agenda. You have a group of people telling another group, that their experiences of institutional racism, does not exist.

There are no Black chairmen, chief executive officers or chief financial officers in any of Britain’s 100 largest companies, as represented by the FTSE-100 index.
Only 155 out of more than 23,000 university professors in the UK are black (fewer than 1%)
92.7% of headteachers in the UK are White British
Less than 2% of TV writers in the UK are black.
Black, Asian and minority ethnic people are over-represented in the criminal justice system in England and Wales. Whether black people are treated more ‘harshly’ than white people is a more complex topic, but there’s also some evidence to suggest this happens in parts of the system.

Some of the biggest institutions in the UK.

Shakes head

Most individual police officers are decent individuals who aren't racist. this country has cons along way - yes there may be some people who are racist but in general thst is. Jig the case. Interestingly the latest issues outside the school in Bradford shows how the authorities are scared of ethnic minorities

Shocking stats @kmr

They don’t make sense particularly in London where there are borough with high percentage of black people.

I think it is a legacy from colonial thinking and that age old pecking order of civilised peoples that favoured Western Europe which seems to have increased in the last twenty years instead of fade away.

Instead of fading away

@Kamr123 and how many people in too companies have even white men off a local housing estate ? Most will be private educated i imagine .
Also what is the percentage of black people in the uk ? And are black people going for head teacher jobs and being turned down ?
Surely its a much bigger picture we have to look at

@worriedatthemoment

It still can’t be right even within the bigger picture though can it?

And if we are talking about terms then we do need to make sure that everything is aired openly so that we are all talking on the same page. If something is perceived to be racist then everyone needs to be involved in the debate so we know how to go forward.

@Smurfsarethefuture

Instead of fading away

Agree!

One of the biggest institutions benefited directly, Lloyds Bank, founded on the slave trade.

In their recent report (2021) it was revealed that the median pay gap between Black employees and their peers is 19.7%, while the median bonus gap is 37.6%. For Black, Asian and other employees who don't identify as White the median pay gap is 14.8% and the bonus gap is 32.5% compared with White colleagues.

I would love to know how the government findings concluded no institutional racism. It is absolutely rife in the UK.

The existence of class discrimination does not mean that racial discrimination also does not also exist. Some people would be unlucky enough to suffer both.

The proportion of black people in the U.K. was 3% at last census according to a quick google.
By any standard 0 black chief execs of FTSE 100 companies is under representation.

Even if black people were not applying for headteacher jobs rather than being turned down the reason for that lack of applications might also be racism ie they feel they would not succeed so don't bother or they don't have the career support to get to that position to be able to supply (the same argument gets applied to Oxbridge admissions)

I think socioeconomic class is more influential than race in the UK. Institutional classism definitely exists and isn’t really challenged.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@Kamr123 and how many people in too companies have even white men off a local housing estate ? Most will be private educated i imagine .
Also what is the percentage of black people in the uk ? And are black people going for head teacher jobs and being turned down ?
Surely its a much bigger picture we have to look at [/quote]
Well according to the 2011 Census, the total population of England and Wales was 56.1 million, and 86.0% of the population was White
people from Asian ethnic groups made up the second largest percentage of the population (at 7.5%), followed by Black ethnic groups (at 3.3%), Mixed/Multiple ethnic groups (at 2.2%) and Other ethnic groups (at 1.0%).

The Census has only just been submitted (21st March 2021)so with a new population count (68 million approximately) and more detailed information on the ethnic groups, we have to wait and see the outcome.

I also agree about it being a much bigger picture. If we look at the phenomena known as the “glass cliff” theory, coined by Ryan and Haslam (2005) who proposed that ‘non-traditional’ leaders were more likely to be promoted to leadership positions in struggling organisations like schools. This may, correlate to the statistics from the Department for Education (DfE) which show that 365 mainstream secondary schools (12%) fell below the ‘floor standard’, up from 282 (9.3%) in 2016, and the increase in BME teachers.

And for the Headteacher roles, well the statistics from the Department for Education show that 3.2 per cent of state-funded secondary headteachers identified as non-white, while for primary school headteachers, the figure was 2.4 per cent. In January 2016, according to official figures, just 39 secondary head teachers in England identified as black.

Lots to think about.

Class is such a nebulous concept though.

I'm sure I am middle class. Myself and my parents worked in professional jobs and besides that I shop at Waitrose and like humous and avocados

My mum always thought of herself as working class though despite being a teacher herself as her dad was a coal miner. My paternal grandfather was a farm labourer
Did my mum and dad's class change as they started off in working class households and became professionals themselves?

I find it hard to identify what is class as separate from poverty and geography (certain regional accents I think would be discriminated against but aren't a sure indicator of class) If I find it hard to identify then isn't it going to be hard to discriminate about?

Skin colour you can easily see so it's very easy to classify someone, apply stereotypes and discriminate.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

The existence of class discrimination does not mean that racial discrimination also does not also exist. Some people would be unlucky enough to suffer both.

The proportion of black people in the U.K. was 3% at last census according to a quick google.
By any standard 0 black chief execs of FTSE 100 companies is under representation.

Even if black people were not applying for headteacher jobs rather than being turned down the reason for that lack of applications might also be racism ie they feel they would not succeed so don't bother or they don't have the career support to get to that position to be able to supply (the same argument gets applied to Oxbridge admissions)

Succinctly stated and agree.

@Crumpsly

I think socioeconomic class is more influential than race in the UK. Institutional classism definitely exists and isn’t really challenged.

I agree to some extent, but sometimes, when you walk through the door for an interview, your class is not what they see first.