Report that says Institutional Racism doesn't exist and more ...

[Dustyboots]

Is no one else angry about this?

I can't find any other threads about it.

What is going on?

And the bit that says the “slave period”, was not just about “profit and suffering” and argues that the era was also about how “culturally African people transformed themselves into a re-modelled African/Britain”.

Are people unaware of this? Or do we just no longer care ...

Next we need a report that there is no institutional sexism or patriarchy 😃

And class is not really a problem, because you know, some people ah e made it despite lower class backgrounds. Ergo anyone can do it. Nothing to see or do. We are an exemplary society

'Did you read the report ? One of the findings was that being black doesn’t make you more likely to be working class or poor'

I went back over the report again to be sure and you are just plumb wrong in that

Twice the proportion of black households are in a persistent low income vs white (28% vs 12%)

Median total household wealth ie including property 286000 vs 34,000 for Black African households

You can't argue with those stats
If you are black you are more likely to be poor
And why would that be?
They say geography but where you live is often determined by your race. Look at threads on black Mumsnetters where people feel uncomfortable to move to the country where they could buy property due to racism

It does come back to racism if you just peel another layer off the onion.

@Watermelon1234

“Historically yes but these days that will probably against the candidate. I was looking at jobs recently and there were several adverts basically seeking candidates particularly from ethnic minorities ot those with disabilities etc...

I think there there is a change and quite rightly so.”

To me this is completely the wrong way to go. It’s patronising and demeaning to ethnic minority or disabled people to imply they got the job purely based on their sex/race/disability. It also breeds resentment in society and is unfair.

It should always be the best qualified person for the job whatever sex, or race. There are many disabled, ethnic minorities and females across society in a range of high level positions. Many of whom I work with. Highly skilled surgeons, consultants etc.

I agree with you mostly. I suppose if it used to be the case, where white employees were favoured over any ethnic minorities, HR departments had to do something to make it more diverse. So seeking out those groups that are none white, their argument would be they are being inclusive.

You’re right though, the best candidate should be the one that’s hired irrespective of anything else....

I know many black boys who try hard. They are often not given second chances or assumed to be intelligent or benign if they mess up though. It is a hard tightrope to walk.

Encouraging people to apply doesn't mean they would be favoured to get the job. Just a statement that you are welcome can be useful without any positive discrimination.

Eg There was a guaranteed interview scheme for disabled applicants (I think it's still there but called 'disability confident') where they can bypass shortlisting and get an interview but the criteria for getting the job are just the same at the interview.

I always call bullshit when people say employers seeking candidates from more diverse groups is unfair. They are seeking to select from a wider pool. It is illegal for them to hire on that basis.

All my ethnic minority friends and colleagues are so aware of providing the very best opportunities and pushing their children educationally because they know they have to overcome discrimination and do better. If anything it's my white kids that are allowed to be lazy.

A black friend and I had a polite but robust discussion about private education. We can both afford it but I feel strongly it's a waste vs hers go private. Finally she said to me 'but you can have that luxury as the dice are already loaded in your favour' and I realised it was true.

@PRsecrets

Black working-class males - and I should know - constantly underperform because they're unwilling to work hard at anything - it's a constant struggle I have with my son and his cousins.

Are you joking? What a twat you are. Perhaps your son and his cousins don’t work hard because of your Godawful attitude. You say it’s nothing to do with race then go on to make a completely racist statement. Against your own race no less. Pathetic.

I don't need this kind of abuse.

I'm not a twat. I'm not pathetic. And I guess that I'm no longer going to waste my time on Mumsnet - it really has become a very nasty place

As a black mumsnetter, to say that this thread is disappointing is an understatement. The report has been widely, widely discredited by academics, charities, institutions alike and contradicts numerous findings by decades of previous governments own reports into the exact same subject. The people appointed to oversee the report (the chair especially) were extremely explicit beforehand that they did not believe that institutional racism did not exist and lo behold their report has found as such, despite the reams of empirical evidence that have proved otherwise. The number of posters willingness to accept these findings because they like how it sounds fills me with actual shame for this country. Deeply, deeply upsetting. It doesn't take a huge amount of critical facilities (or basic research) to see that in the past 24 hours the 'findings' have been pretty much debunked.

I know many black boys who try hard. They are often not given second chances or assumed to be intelligent or benign if they mess up though.

I agree @Hippoalley.

Thank you for that post @PRsecrets
It’s a narrative that young Caribbean boys and men hear over and over and adults who should know better repeat. It’s hugely damaging. I’ve had similar experiences with my sons. Always acing exams but constantly under predicted. Once maybe but when you see it for years, it’s a pattern.
They’re both at grammar schools right now but without me questioning and sometimes taking over at home when they were put in lower groups they wouldn’t have stood a chance.

Knitterbabe is Reinforcing once again the reason why Black Mumsnetters needs to exist.

I predict this thread will get pulled or be Swiss cheese before very long

It is a crying shame that one cannot have a civilised discussion about this important issue and report on Mumsnet

I think FluffyHippo should be allowed to post her views without name calling too although I disagree with them.

European racism has always involved hierarchies of race -- it's not a binary of white vs everyone who isn't white, but rather some non-white races were always seen as better than others

I am not disagreeing with this, but my question is why would that be? Surely there is more to it than where someone is from and having a different coloured skin?

I will use the example of people of Indian descent again. If you ask me the question "what do you think of Indian people?" I would instantly say something like "I think they are really hardworking, risk-takers who appreciate education". I don't think Indian people are "better than others" but they have my respect because of what they have done over the generations from when they first started coming here.

Unfortunately, some groups of people have been stereotyped and this is unfair but to put the blame of this at white peoples feet 100% is wrong and it won't solve the matter. It is a discussion we need to have, but as mentioned up-thread, the solution is not what you think. It takes changes on both sides.

Why is complicated

If I were to ask you what you think about people of Black Carribean descent then I am worried your thoughts would be less positive. They might be 'good footballers and athletes' but they might be as a bad as 'lazy, feckless, criminal'.

You have a set of stereotypes in your brain that you apply to Indian and to Black Carribean people before knowing anything about them personally.

That's normal. Everyone does it. Irish people are 'cheerful and lucky, like a drink and a laugh' Scots are 'tight' etc etc

What's concerning is your stereotypes of black people are more negative. That is at least implied in your post I think .

Where those stereotypes come from is much less likely to be personal experience than mythology. Things on TV, news, in films and books, what you were told at school and by your parents etc etc

Of course those stereotypes aren't true of anyone but if you are repeatedly told that's how you should be then maybe no surprise if you are? Self fulfilling prophecy

@orishan

As a black mumsnetter, to say that this thread is disappointing is an understatement. The report has been widely, widely discredited by academics, charities, institutions alike and contradicts numerous findings by decades of previous governments own reports into the exact same subject. The people appointed to oversee the report (the chair especially) were extremely explicit beforehand that they did not believe that institutional racism did not exist and lo behold their report has found as such, despite the reams of empirical evidence that have proved otherwise. The number of posters willingness to accept these findings because they like how it sounds fills me with actual shame for this country. Deeply, deeply upsetting. It doesn't take a huge amount of critical facilities (or basic research) to see that in the past 24 hours the 'findings' have been pretty much debunked.

@orishan Please don't get too upset. As you said, the report has been widely discredited and there will be more to come. This thread speaks more for mumsnet demographics than for anything else. I actually think (and hope) that when the dust settles this report will be the liability rather than the asset to the gaslighting brigade.

I am not black, I didn't grow up in this country, but seeing how I am treated in the UK, and after reading the book by Renni Eddo-Lodge, I took time to speak to my black friends and colleagues and their experiences are horrifying.

Unfortunately, some groups of people have been stereotyped and this is unfair but to put the blame of this at white peoples feet 100% is wrong and it won't solve the matter. It is a discussion we need to have, but as mentioned up-thread, the solution is not what you think. It takes changes on both sides.

So... white people are not 100% responsible for white racism? Are you serious?

You seem to be saying that if black people are at the bottom of a racial hierarchy it must be because they did something to deserve that. They haven't earned your respect like Indian people have (ffs).

Black Africans were put at the bottom of British racial hierarchies during the colonial era because Europeans were completely ignorant about African culture and society and saw them as 'uncivilised' (compared to people in Egypt, Persia, India, China).

There is no 'both sides' to that.

Do you disagree that poverty and social “class” is a huge factor or are they two completely separate issues?

They are also factors however in the case of how they apply to this issue, "class" and poverty are largely functions of...racism.

So racism leads to poverty and a perception/reality of lower social class, which leads to lower attainment/health outcomes/interactions with justice system etc.

It's still racism.

Bollocks to that. Institutional racism is alive and well, ask any police officer! It's not as bad as it was thankfully but still exists.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

Knitterbabe is Reinforcing once again the reason why Black Mumsnetters needs to exist.

I predict this thread will get pulled or be Swiss cheese before very long

It is a crying shame that one cannot have a civilised discussion about this important issue and report on Mumsnet

I think FluffyHippo should be allowed to post her views without name calling too although I disagree with them.

Agree. I didn't see all FluffyHippo's posts before they were pulled, but the points she makes about the white saviour narrative are deeply discomfiting, as they should be. It's time these issues were given sunlight.

The report is pretty close to a dog whistle, and the attitudes on this thread show exactly why Boris is letting it stand - there's a lot of votes here.