Report that says Institutional Racism doesn't exist and more ...

[Dustyboots]

Is no one else angry about this?

I can't find any other threads about it.

What is going on?

And the bit that says the “slave period”, was not just about “profit and suffering” and argues that the era was also about how “culturally African people transformed themselves into a re-modelled African/Britain”.

Are people unaware of this? Or do we just no longer care ...

The worse thing about the report is that it will be used as a weapon to dismiss any issues that relate to racism. See- I told you we aren't racist and we have a report to prove it.

Wish I saw fluffyhippo's deleted posts!

Me too.

All I will say is I am glad this has come out, because I am sick to death of the UK being labelled racist, and the ludicrous myth that if you're white, you have every advantage over non-white people

Never heard anyone say this - that if you're white, you have every advantage over non-white people
That's the problem with people hearing what they want to hear. Every advantage? That's not what people say or mean when they talk about white privilege.

I am not black so I cannot speak to experiences of racism but I am female and I know it boils my blood when men tell me patriarchy doesn't exist

Women work part time because they just want to
They get paid less because they choose less well paid careers
No-one is outright saying I am less intelligent because I am female so that means sexism no longer exists.
It's all just choices I am making.

They never stop to think what a coincidence it is that so many women make these 'choices' and so few men
They don't stop to think that my choices are constrained by my biology and be societies gendered expectations

So by analogy I can easily see that racism isn't just calling someone the n word. It's about your stereotypes and assumptions about them based on their skin colour and how that limits their choices.

I cannot agree that black people are just making bad choices that are causing them to have lower educational outcomes, earn less, to get arrested by police and remanded in custody more often, to die in childbirth more often, to die from Covid more often.

On the surface this might be related to class and to poverty but how does being black make you more likely to be working class or poor? The simple colour of your skin can't be the cause of that so it has to be due to racism (unless you do want to go full on Francis Galton and suggest that black peoples are actually less intelligent)

Take a look at this and tell how we aren't still institutionally racist

www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-black-bank-manager-to-sue-metropolitan-police-for-racial-discrimination-after-26-month-nightmare

I don't think we are as bad as some places - notably quite a few in the EU - but that's not a recommendation or a reason we can't do better.

@Alsohuman

Wish I saw fluffyhippo's deleted posts!

Me too.

Ah, you don't get to see my deleted posts because a black woman has dared the challenge the Mumsnet white liberal circle-jerk by talking about something she's actually well-versed in. Sorry!

Perhaps I should stay in my ghetto - Black Mumsnetters - and not upset the good ol' white folks who's only tryin' to save us poor black folks. We don't know nuttin', remember, 'cos we is all victims...

Absolutely - too few people are willing to acknowledge the upside of slavery, it's a crying shame confused.

Why should people acknowledge the "upside of slavery" and why is it a surprise that people who've felt the effects of slavery don't see or "wish to acknowledge the upside of it"?

What else shall we acknowledge the upside of: holocaust? Domestic violence (because the woman left and became a millionaire, which wouldn't have happened had it not been for the 'blessed dv', perhaps), child abuse?

Many good things have ended up coming from bad things (sometimes, inspite of it) but why do you need people to acknowledge the upside of their bad experience for you? What will you gain from it?

On the surface this might be related to class and to poverty but how does being black make you more likely to be working class or poor?

Did you read the report ? One of the findings was that being black doesn’t make you more likely to be working class or poor.

As the report did find that being black Caribbean meant you were more likely to be working class or poor then it would be useful to look at black Caribbean working class children and white working class children to see if there is a reason why those 2 groups have lower socioeconomic outcomes.

Samuel Kasumu has quit his SPAD role.

There's a thread in BlackMumsnetters too and I didn't see anyone in there saying what a marvellous balanced report this is either.

I am very wary of the 'white saviour' thing and I would not post in Black Mumsnetters because we have been asked not to and I respect that. I think everyone is entitled to a view on this report though whatever that view might be.

I would go back to a feminist analogy and say that I am a successful, strong woman who has made a good career and life for herself but that does not mean I am not subject to sexism and face more barriers than a man would. I certainly am.

To say that black people face additional barriers in society that white people don't just seems self evident to me and isn't an attempt to say they are weak or keep them down in any way.

@NVision

Doubt many on here care. If it doesn't happen to them (clue, they're white British) then it doesn't exist.

This, but were it a report on whiter people being oppressed then it would no doubt have a bigger coverage.

Perhaps I should stay in my ghetto - Black Mumsnetters - and not upset the good ol' white folks who's only tryin' to save us poor black folks
To the contrary, Fluffy, I would welcome you staying on here and answering my and others' questions, including those asking how exactly it is racist for me to challenge your statement about your son and his cousins.

Eg the report says racism isn't the reason for educational under achievement because Asian kids do well

Honestly this report is such an embarrassment.

@DynamoKev

In that report it says he has a 6 figure income (as he also has btl properties) and had a legal aid solicitor (which he then changed). How does that work ? legal aid / 6 figure income. He was also a bank manager, I think.

Something strikes me as very wrong with the whole scenario.

I actually agree with @FluffyHippo that some white people are not coming to anti-racism from a good place. The white saviour complex is real. I agree with the criticism of the report but some responses I've seen from white people have been really cringey and not helpful.

I think you should look at the reasons behind the reasons

Say we concede that Fluffy's son and nephews and black Carribean young men in general are lazier and that explains poor education outcomes (I am NOT saying I think that before I get deleted just arguing a point)

Well then why are they lazier?
Is that really likely to be a genetic thing like Francis Galton thought or are there other explanations?

Could it be a racist stereotype that black men aren't intelligent that has been taken up in the Carribean community? A kind of self stigma Maybe a legacy of slavery and racism? Little is expected of them by themselves and others so little is achieved.

Or is it a lack of role models in schools or wider society eg lots of sporting role models but few academic ones (opposite to the Asian community in fact)?
That's certainly shown to be true within sport. Why would there be a lot of black runners but few black rowers although physical attributes should be similar? Presumably because black children don't join rowing clubs.

I find the report short sighted in this regard (I have read it). What are the reasons behind the reasons

(And that's without the stupid 'new story about slavery' quote which it's hard to know where to start with what's wrong with that. A nuanced more balanced view of slavery?? What next '3 things Ruwanda taught us about genocide? Facism the untold story how some Nazis weren't all bad after all?')

[quote Smurfsarethefuture]@DynamoKev

In that report it says he has a 6 figure income (as he also has btl properties) and had a legal aid solicitor (which he then changed). How does that work ? legal aid / 6 figure income. He was also a bank manager, I think.

Something strikes me as very wrong with the whole scenario.[/quote]
Is that honestly all you got from that story?

He accounted for every penny of income and expenditure and it still wasn't enough for the Police.

Anything good/sensible recommendations coming out of this report have been hugely overshadowed by the crassness/offensiveness/wrongness of other parts of it. I have also now lost count of the number of people who apparently contributed to the report who have said they had nothing to do with it...

People are asking for a long-overdue discussion about race and I think it should be had. However, I think there will be some uncomfortable truths on both sides. As a white person, I have been told that I live in a place that is rotten to the core with racism and that all our institutions are prejudice against people of colour. Whilst I do think your everyday person is racist whatever their colour, I think this report shines a very large light on the fact that perhaps it is not as cut and dried as you think.

So, for example, if our institutions are so rotten to the core and do everything they can to keep minorities down, why is it then that we don't hear very often from any of the 1.4 million people of Indian descent that live here and have collectively taken advantage of our education system and opportunities which have led many of them to work in very senior and professional roles in our country? There are other minorities too who have moved here or were born here that have done the same. Is it the case that institutional racism is only against certain minorities? I doubt it.

As said, this conversation needs to be had, but it needs to be had very honestly. I think white people are willing to listen and do something about it, but in doing so there are also some uncomfortable truths that will come out as well.

Perhaps I should stay in my ghetto - Black Mumsnetters - and not upset the good ol' white folks who's only tryin' to save us poor black folks. We don't know nuttin', remember, 'cos we is all victims...

The thing is I agree with some of your earlier points but I doubt you're upsetting anyone except black people possibly - what with your other points about black people. And that's what's funny to me because you seem to think your stance is different from what it actually is - that it's a "black person"/'us vs them' stance (as you keep trying to tell people you're a black woman) but some of what you've said here will likely get you called "binfolk" and 'white posing as black' by some black people. Again, I doubt white people would be the ones saying it but they'll agree if black people say it. So, I'm not sure why you're insistent on blaming them in this case.
Yes there's a white saviour complex many white people have but it's not here right now.

Also white or white liberal doesn't automatically = middle class any more than black automatically = poor.

That's all I'm saying. If we agree, great. If we don't, we'll agree to disagree.

It also makes me laugh that you (and some people) think you know people's race on here based on their views. Like I said, I'd have thought seeing as your views aren't typical for what many would expect from a black person and for BMN (And they don't have to be), you'd know not to judge people's race based on theirs.

Im nervous to read the report because the headlines made me so cross and im still cross. Its so odd to see headlines about there being no institutional racism and holding outselves as a model, when i know other recent reports have found evidence and people lives show evidence .
However i do know one of the contributers and I respect and admire them so i am going to read it.

Perhaps some minorities have done well despite racism? Not that they havent experienced it

It is like saying sexism and misogyny is not a problem because some women have done well

@PRsecrets

Black working-class males - and I should know - constantly underperform because they're unwilling to work hard at anything - it's a constant struggle I have with my son and his cousins.

Are you joking? What a twat you are. Perhaps your son and his cousins don’t work hard because of your Godawful attitude. You say it’s nothing to do with race then go on to make a completely racist statement. Against your own race no less. Pathetic.

Uncalled for. And totally illogical, how on earth can you be racist against your own race, ffs?

Is it the case that institutional racism is only against certain minorities? I doubt it.

Why is this hard to believe?

European racism has always involved hierarchies of race -- it's not a binary of white vs everyone who isn't white, but rather some non-white races were always seen as better than others. Throughout it all though, black Africans were always at the bottom of the hierarchy. Is it so hard to believe these attitudes still exist?