Report that says Institutional Racism doesn't exist and more ...

[Dustyboots]

Is no one else angry about this?

I can't find any other threads about it.

What is going on?

And the bit that says the “slave period”, was not just about “profit and suffering” and argues that the era was also about how “culturally African people transformed themselves into a re-modelled African/Britain”.

Are people unaware of this? Or do we just no longer care ...

“The report is surprisingly sensible. The main points I got from it are:

• Britain is a model example of a country where minorities are treated well.
• We shouldn't automatically assume that where minorities are disadvantaged, the cause is racism.
• Movements like Black Lives Matter make people think the problem is much worse than it is.
• Black African and Asian children are better students than white children, in fact only Black Caribbean child perform worse than white children.
• British history in terms of Empire and slavery isn't automatically negative in every aspect.
• To all intents and purposes, there is no evidence of "institutional racism" - most people who throw that term about don't actually understand what it means.
• There is a large element who want to present the current situation as being no improvement over that of the 1970s, when in actual fact things are drastically improved.

I'm actually quite impressed with how reasoned the report is. It looks at the facts and takes the emotions out of it, which is exactly what it should be doing.
Brilliantly put. Said exactly what I was thinking.

Of course some non-white people suffer racism in this country, and yes, there are some white racist people. But this is NOT a racist country, and most white people are not racist. And at LAST, we have something to illustrate that!

Of course, some people are going to deny it, but then they would wouldn't they? Because it's not what they want to hear.

I think quite a lot of people are angry at this report saying the UK isn't racist, (and you are not any more disadvantaged as a black working class person, as you are a white working class person,) because they have been shouting so loudly for so many years about how horribly racist and advantaged white people are. But it doesn't change the fact that in the UK, non-white people are generally no more disadvantaged than white people, and most white people are not racist!

Also, with the BLM protests, the vast majority of people at them, were people who were not disadvantaged in any way. They were mostly young, and some were white, and I don't believe most of them even knew what they were protesting about!

That's my only post on the matter, because I know this thread will get ugly.... All I will say is I am glad this has come out, because I am sick to death of the UK being labelled racist, and the ludicrous myth that if you're white, you have every advantage over non-white people.

This legitimate, well-balanced, and detailed report tells quite a different story.”

Yes that’s what I thought too.

And as for “unconscious bias” well that exists in all of us whatever race or sex.

@FluffyHippo

I have also taught for 11 years in a school where 80% of children are not white and 76% are ‘pupil premium’. So I do know a fair amount.

YANBU

I mean just read this excerpt, it's mind-boggling. 350 years of empire, slavery and genocide is 'influence'???

Oh and if you want a dictionary of British words that are Indian in origin, you can start with 'loot' HTH

The ‘Making of Modern Britain’ teaching resource is our response to negative calls for ‘decolonising’ the curriculum. Neither the banning of White authors or token expressions of Black achievement will help to broaden young minds. We have argued against bringing down statues, instead, we want all children to reclaim their British heritage. We want to create a teaching resource that looks at the influence of the UK, particularly during the Empire period. We want to see how Britishness influenced the Commonwealth and local communities, and how the Commonwealth and local communities influenced what we now know as modern Britain. One great example would be a dictionary or lexicon of well known British words which are Indian in origin. There is a new story about the Caribbean experience which speaks to the slave period not only being about profit and suffering but how culturally African people transformed themselves into a re-modelled African/Britain.

@Dustyboots

But this is NOT a racist country, and most white people are not racist.

Hmmm - I'm not sure were you live @littlepattilou and/or who you are surrounded by ...

I myself live in a part of London that doesn't feel racist at all (to me) but then I'm white. However my family live in rural, very white parts of England - and through them I have met such blatant racist people. They're married to them etc

There is no way that anyone could say we are not a racist country. It simply is not true, in any way.

Didn’t the report acknowledge that there is still a problem with racism?

There was a report into the disproportionate rate of black men dying in interactions with the met. It found that more violence was used in restraint due to underlying racist assumptions.

That wasn't very long ago.

Now this hooray we're not racist report.

It's insulting.

@WhatTheFlap

Here you go

The government conducted their own report and found that they'd done nothing wrong - happy days.

It's an absolute joke, just like most things this sodding government do nowadays, but as usual, we all just sweep it under the rug and do fuck all about it.

Yes this.

I read they have redefined institutional racism to mean something different entirely, then concluded that the thing it doesn't mean doesn't happen

For those saying that people who are white Britsh don't care - some of us do care. I know I am not affected directly but I am genuinely bothered.

Britain is a model example of a country where minorities are treated well

@Watermelon1234 you wrote the above. That was part of your summary of the report.

Hi all

Can we just remind you of our talk guidelines? No personal attacks, please. As ever we are a post-moderated site. If you have concerns about posts on the boards, report them to us using the report button. We're always more than happy to take a look.

Doubt many on here care. If it doesn't happen to them (clue, they're white British) then it doesn't exist.

Why single one particular race out here?

Very few British/Western born people, of any race, care much about the endemic and current slavery in Asia. In fact, most of us facilitate it because doing anything to change it would make out own lives slightly more difficult.

Similarly, hardly anyone in Britain cares about the ongoing genocides in Myanmar, Central African Republic, or Syria and Iraq. Except to go "oh that's terrible" if they talk about it.

We care about things that directly impact us more than things that don't. That's not a white thing, it's a human thing

@DioneTheDiabolist

I think some of the contributors to the report are beginning to regret it, with each interview they appear more and more embarrassed. They were stitched up.

The report itself is no surprise, the government wanted a report that minimised and whitewashed systemic racism and they got one.

Some now denying they were ever involved despite their names appearing on the report as 'contributors'

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/race-report-boris-johnson-authors-b1825516.html

sorry, 'stakeholders'

@skirk64

The report is surprisingly sensible. The main points I got from it are:

• Britain is a model example of a country where minorities are treated well.
• We shouldn't automatically assume that where minorities are disadvantaged, the cause is racism.
• Movements like Black Lives Matter make people think the problem is much worse than it is.
• Black African and Asian children are better students than white children, in fact only Black Caribbean child perform worse than white children.
• British history in terms of Empire and slavery isn't automatically negative in every aspect.
• To all intents and purposes, there is no evidence of "institutional racism" - most people who throw that term about don't actually understand what it means.
• There is a large element who want to present the current situation as being no improvement over that of the 1970s, when in actual fact things are drastically improved.

I'm actually quite impressed with how reasoned the report is. It looks at the facts and takes the emotions out of it, which is exactly what it should be doing.

Absolutely - too few people are willing to acknowledge the upside of slavery, it's a crying shame .

I think the report expresses it rather more subtly, but the fact that you think it is "not automatically negative in every aspect" says a lot about how reliable your views are...

The conclusion to that report was written before the pencil met the paper. What else did we expect?

[quote cinammonbuns]**@FluffyHippo have you bothered to read about the people who authored the report? It seems their minds were made up before they even wrote it.[/quote]
She doesn’t need to. She’s read the report - the source document - and as a black woman has made up her own mind about its contents. The condescension of that response is breathtaking.

Is this the kind of crap you have to tolerate @FluffyHippo?

They asked people who publicly stated they did not believe in institutional racism to investigate whether institutional racism exists.

It's like asking Flat Earthers to investigate whether the earth is round.

@Dustyboots

Britain is a model example of a country where minorities are treated well

@Watermelon1234 you wrote the above. That was part of your summary of the report.

Yes I was quoting someone else’s post and commented underneath that I agreed with what they said.

I agree with you about there still being individuals who have racist views -especially like you mentioned in more rural areas- I have come across that myself too.

But surely as a country we are not all defined by those individuals, and the fact that they exist does not mean that we are a racist country?

Movements like Black Lives Matter make people think the problem is much worse than it is.

I am not black. How would I know how bad the problem is, when it's not directed at me persistently, habitually, and on a daily basis?

How dispiriting and disheartening it must be for black people to have their concerns constantly minimised, to have white people persistently talking over them 'racesplaining' about what racism really is, that systemic or institutional racism is all in their imagination and whether or not they have experienced 'real' racism on any level from systemic to individual victimisation to micro-aggression.

I'm sick to the back teeth of reading this BS, and I'm white, ergo not affected by it to anything like the same degree.

Yes, OP, I'm saddened and angered by that report. Whitewashing seems a frivolous term to use in this context. But it is, I think, apt.

I think this thread is a prime example of why no one can engage in sensible discussions about race on the main mumsnet boards, some posters come along and try and discuss the points raised and are interrupted by posters derailing because they want everyone to know just how not racist they are.

Look at the responses to @FluffyHippo ! She was making some really interesting points but was completely dismissed by other posters!

I’m really into anthropology and I’m interested in the cultural aspects of slavery - how did it shape the culture of the time and how has that influenced life today, it’s a fascinating discussion and to just shut it down because slavery was bad is just downright childish- not talking about slavery won’t make it not have happened!

@dreamingbohemian

They asked people who publicly stated they did not believe in institutional racism to investigate whether institutional racism exists.

It's like asking Flat Earthers to investigate whether the earth is round.

Look at the responses to @FluffyHippo ! She was making some really interesting points but was completely dismissed by other posters!

Again, genuine question, please take it as such: what is interesting in those posts that you'd like to see discussed more?

I do agree from an anthropology/culture POV there is much to examine and to find interesting in culture because of and post-slavery. I'm an English grad and have always found what used to be called post-colonial literature and its surrounding culture fascinating. Please understand though that what I'm saying here is very far from saying or agreeing that slavery was any kind of good thing! But it is not wrong per se to discuss the influence of colonialism and its attendant forces, including slavery.

For those who strongly disagree with the report findings.....

Do you disagree that poverty and social “class” is a huge factor or are they two completely separate issues?

And to what degree is unconscious bias compared with conscious or overt racism a problem? (And genuinely, what can be done about the former when it is ingrained in all of us depending on our individual life experiences?)

And finally, if you could make any changes to the recommendations, not necessarily ideology but more practical changes, what would you suggest that hasn’t been tried already?

@DioneTheDiabolist

I wouldn't call it a victim narrative at all. I think to do so distorts, minimises and dismisses the conversations.

I said 'victim' mainly because a pp used that word and I was responding based on that and their other posts on this thread.

No, I wouldn't call conversations about experiences 'victim narrative'. There's nothing wrong with them. However, if I'm being honest, there's a certain victim narrative in some conversations and mindset, which some allies have picked up on and used to try and soothe (some with good intentions, and others, not; some effectively and others, a bit wobbly and ignorant of what to do/say and how).

This is probably what the pp is seeing as 'forcing victimhood' because white people are involved but I'm arguing they aren't forcing it in this case.

Are there white people who want to make sure Black people and other ethnic minorities in the west go down and stay as low - economically - as they can? Oh yes! Many! But it's not those genuinely trying to support them (allies).

That's by the by anyway and it's not meant to detract from the general conversation, which is highly important and necessary.

I thought about posting a thread on this yesterday, OP, but then I thought that too many people would pile on to defend the report and I'd be annoyed, so I posted on the thread in BM instead.

I'm white. I don't claim to know what it's like to be black in this country, but when people tell me that they have experienced structural racism, I listen. The voices of a very few black people who have not experienced life in this way do not in any way negate the experiences of the many people who do.

This report denies and dismisses the real, lived experience of so many people. The chair of the commission expressed his views before the enquiry even started, so it's hard to believe that he entered the role without a clear agenda. People are being gaslighted and it's wrong.

As soon as Boris chose Tony Sewell to head up this report it was a forgone conclusion what it would say. His opinions are well known.

As a scientist I often have a hard time with these kind of political reports being described as 'evidence based' when in the end they are still just someone's opinion.
There is data but the data is then interpreted in line with people's views. Other interpretations are possible and usually there is no statistical analysis or reason given to prefer one explanation over another.

Eg the report says racism isn't the reason for educational under achievement because Asian kids do well but I don't see why racism couldn't still be the reason that black Caribbean boys do badly. It could be specific racist stereotypes that are applied to black boys and not to Asian ones. I think there definitely is a stereotype of black boys being sporty and Asian ones academic.

In other places the report calls for lumping everyone in as BAME to be done away with and yet when it suits them to make a certain point it does just lump different groups together.

If black Carribean people specifically have worse outcomes than black African or Asian people then a cause that springs easily to mind is that the legacy of slavery is different to that of colonialism.

If poverty and class are the reasons for poor outcomes then the next question to be asked is why are black people over represented in lower socioeconomic classes? Why can't they climb out of poverty?
I mean what on earth could the reason for that be.....

This report comes across as just completely tone deaf in the wake of BLM, being published during the trial of George Floyd and with an ongoing coronavirus pandemic disproportionately affecting black and ethnic minority people.

Is this report going to encourage people from ethnic minorities to feel able to trust government advice and accept the vaccine? Or is it going to just make them feel gaslit and alienated? I wonder...

Wish I saw fluffyhippo's deleted posts! But judging from some of the response, this is what is confusing me and why I responded in the first place. On one hand, fluffyhippo seems to be saying black people are lazy, etc who see themselves as victims and on the other hand blaming white people for black people seeing themselves as victims and calling people racists for who-knows-what.

I don't get it.