Can't do woman talk? Am I broken?

[viixie]

Okay so I'm a grown woman but I just find small talk boring I've never felt like I've fit in.

I've just been for a walk with some female friends and I've always felt like I've never fit in with females. I've always felt like the odd one out. They will chat and gossip about people and work and their lives etc and I don't talk as much. I have always been the quieter one but I find this kind of small talk boring. I feel like I'm there because I have to be to try and seem normal rather than to enjoy myself. It's an effort for me to try and fit in in this conversation. I am aware they are probably doing 70% of the chat and I'm meeting them back with 30% if you see what I mean. If I'm in a group of people I will let the others do most of the talking, I find it draining and uninteresting. Of course I pretend to be interested and try to involve myself but inside I find it draining. I'd rather be at home, I much prefer one on one company where I will then feel comfortable being myself and having a chat. I feel like I never really let anyone know or see the real me unless it's someone close like my partner or close family. I feel I am never fully relaxed or myself with anyone else.

Am I broken? Anyone else?

A friend came over last night for a drink in our garden. I realised one reason I love her is she never bothers with that gossipy small talk. She plunges straight into discussing ideas and the world at large. She's not overly serious or academic, she's just engaged with life beyond village gossip. If you mixed with people like that, would you be more talkative, OP?

@AngeloMysterioso

It’s not grand or fancy to want to talk about the universe. But, like you, lots of women won’t talk about it.

And that’s specific to women, is it?

Never said it was. I’m a woman and so is the OP for starters.

Sorry but calling this a "woman talk" is internalised misogyny which you are using to explain away some other problem, like no chemistry with this specific group, or some communication impairment (e.g. being on the autistic spectrum or something else).

Men do a very similar kind of talk with other men they are close to, similar in essence even if appearances differ somewhat. It is to bond with someone in a specific way, in our society often people won't do it with the other gender (in the case of men talk this often includes sexually explicit comments about women - as a replacement for what you call women gossip). That men don't do it in your presence just means you aren't close in this way most likely.

Sorry, I know it is probably hard to accept. It is a very useful skill that you might be lacking, and in that case it probably has consequences for your life in general. It is better to see that for what it is than to explain it away with this ""woman talk" drivel.

Well there's nothing unusual about being an introvert but I'm kinda confused/ concerned at your use of "women talk" when it sounds like it's just about a particular group of people.

Why are you assuming this is about gender?

I know loads of women that aren't interested in the kind of things you're describing.

@YSoloTu

When listening to peoples inane chatter I’ve learnt how to pretend I’m interested for politeness sake - but it’s painful. I’m definitely not broken and I’m sure I’m not autistic (apologies if that’s not the correct term) - it’s because small talk is soooooo boring to some of us. I do however appreciate that some of my relatives/acquaintances find me difficult to converse with -

Them: ‘Did you watch Coronation Street last night?’
Me: ‘No, I don’t really watch tv’
Them: ‘Oh....... did you watch Call the Midwife at weekend then?’
Me: ‘No, I was probably reading’
Them: ‘Oh......... did I tell you what Jim’s next door neighbours grandson did?’
Me: Kill me now.

I just try to be polite and breathe a sigh of relief when the conversation is over. What else can you do if you want to keep good relationships with relatives/acquaintances?

Wouldn't you say 'No I was probably reading, actually the book I'm reading now is about.... '

Just answering the questions you're asked isn't small talk.

I've yet to meet a person who hasn't got the potential to say something interesting or at least stimulate an interesting thought.

I understand the need for deeper conversations but the mundane and domestic is the bedrock of social interaction. Chat at this level can bring with it surprising insights.

I am probably contradicting stuff I said earlier in saying this!

@Wroxie

Maintaining social interactions through 'small talk' is something that shows you are interested in other people and generous enough to try to make them comfortable around you. Just because you don't enjoy it or it doesn't come easily for you doesn't make you somehow superior to those who do enjoy it (or who at least make the effort). Quite the opposite, in fact.

If you actually want to get better at it rather than writing incredulously about how ANYONE could POSSIBLY enjoy it and how TIRESOME other women are (yes, I know you didn't say that, but you very clearly meant it)- try asking people questions about themselves and actually listening to what they have to say, and then asking follow-up questions that show you've been listening. It really is that simple.

The above is one of the most basic life skills. I don't know how people survive in this world without understanding it. And then probably complain they have no friends... Also if you actually try to do it you will learn many interesting things about all these people you found boring because you never listened to what they had to say.

"Do you ever look at people talking and wonder why they find the conversation interesting ?"

Never. I understand that people like all kinds of different things.

@Coronawireless

Except you said lots of women, not lots of people.

You might be autistic.

If you don't enjoy it then don't feel you have to go along to this stuff just because it's what people are supposed to do.

Do stuff you enjoy instead.

I personally love chatting and am interested in everyone's antics even if I don't know them, despite having some ASD, so people might imagine I wouldn't like that.

But everyone's different and that's ok.

Hiya OP, I used to feel like you but it's improved SO much with age. I think in my case, I was never very confident around women because my DM had undiagnosed mental health problems and was a shouter. She was my female role model and I was scared of her at times. I was wary of girls/women and found boys/men easier for quite a long time. I LOVE my female friend nowadays and feel completely relaxed with them. I do recognise your description of feeling ill at ease though

Them: ‘Did you watch Coronation Street last night?’

No it's not something I watch - though DH been around the set up in- it was closed years I was in the city - have you been?

I agree just answering the question asked isn't small talk and gives no scope of widening the conversation out onto other topics that might interest both parties.

@nancywhitehead

Well there's nothing unusual about being an introvert but I'm kinda confused/ concerned at your use of "women talk" when it sounds like it's just about a particular group of people.

Why are you assuming this is about gender?

I know loads of women that aren't interested in the kind of things you're describing.

Yet the OP in her post said that many of the women she meets DO talk about these things. Why is her experience less valid than yours?

alrighty then.

You haven't found your people yet, also you're probably more introverted, that's fine, you don't need not to be. I am similar, I prefer 1:1 chats or smaller groups. I feel exhausted spending time with very chatty people who I have nothing in common with.. so I don't do it anymore. I have found my interests and passions again later in life and I spend time doing those around similar people.

It’s not an insult to say “woman talk”. It certainly isn’t misogynistic! - unless you think something preferred by women is automatically inferior?

@Coronawireless OP is saying she finds 'women's' interests less interesting than men's. That can be seen as misogynistic.

You and OP are also stereotyping women as being a particular way- which is an unfeminist thing to do, and saying that that way you believe women to be is less admirable.

I take your points though.

Why is it misogynistic to say “woman talk”?
It's dismissive of the things "woman talk" because it's women who do it, not fantastic manly men who talk about really serious manly man topics. As though women can't do that too.

I think some people here don’t understand the term “misogynistic.
yes, but it's not the people identifying "women talk" and being dismissive of it

Woman talk is more common amongst women.
I talk and I'm a woman. That's woman talk. But i am going to guess that not all women talk about the things that i talk about to the exclusion of all else. Just now I was talking about the AK47. But prior to that i was discussing what we're going to do on Saturday and if a friend will be ok leaving her baby for 2 hours (EBF).

They talk about people rather than things.
some women do. Some don't. We're all different and as someone upthread said: there are around 3.5 billion of us. That's a lot of variance right there.

PP mentioned that when DH comes back and she asks about X's son, Y's wife, Z's baby he hasn't a clue. Frankly, I'd be the same, unless i know them well. But i would have asked if I'd been interested and then i would know.

I think women do chat about lots of things that men don't, but that is because they have been brought up and socialised that way, not because they have lady brains. Men talk about plenty of trivial, boring stuff too, but not necessarily the same trivial boring stuff.

When I'm with the two local women friends I see most often, practically all we talk about is our kids and our dogs, which is fine but gets pretty boring. They aren't really interested in much else. I'd really like to meet more like-minded women, but have not managed to do so. That's probably why I spend too much time on MN tbh - plenty of intelligent conversation on here.

Why would you use a term 'broken', OP? It's certain de rigeur at the moment but you're surely more navel-gazing and wanting other people to pay attention to how and what you think you are? That's just a bit self-absorbed.

I agree with PP that if you look at other people in more than one dimension and become interested in them, you'd probably be more interesting yourself. If you think that other people aren't worthy of consideration and looking into a little more deeply then, well... neither are you.

There’s a thread on this from a few days ago:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4204568-Shy-and-introverted-mistaken-for-standoffish-and-unfriendly-anyone-else

FWIW OP, I got flamed on there for saying that I found that big groups of women (and men) tend to chat about inanities. Same with social media, it’s all selfies and virtue signalling and hunning. The problem with big groups (of men and women) is that there’s more opportunity to offend people if there are more people, so I always give them a swerve. I’m also not very good at groupthink.

DS1 has ASD and ADHD so chances are I do, too.

I am exactly the same I find people draining - I have never done small talk - it bores me rigid and I have never clicked with anyone - work colleagues keep wanting to meet up - but I can't put myself through it anymore as too draining for me! - Please don't beat yourself up !

I think small talk isn't a gender thing. In my experience it's how friendly someone is. Do they smile and say hello? Do they stop to talk to you? Do they show an interest and value in what you say? I love small talk. I like talking to different people and making that small connection and I find that you usually get onto something more interesting and learn something new if you are prepared to be friendly and listen. It's just nice and people are interesting.
As for the concept of woman talk, well actually when men and women are talk, men statistically dominate the conversation and talk more. They also interrupt more and gossip more. It's a sexist concept that women gossip more and have less intellectual conversations. Its not a secret that male suicide is a huge problem and men don't feel able to talk about their problems or feelings. Maybe this is what you mean is the difference between male and female conversations. I think this is really too simplistic and in OPs case this is maybe more about a big group dynamic and being able to process everything and think about what to say. This is where extroverts are really skilled.

@YSoloTu

When listening to peoples inane chatter I’ve learnt how to pretend I’m interested for politeness sake - but it’s painful. I’m definitely not broken and I’m sure I’m not autistic (apologies if that’s not the correct term) - it’s because small talk is soooooo boring to some of us. I do however appreciate that some of my relatives/acquaintances find me difficult to converse with -

Them: ‘Did you watch Coronation Street last night?’
Me: ‘No, I don’t really watch tv’
Them: ‘Oh....... did you watch Call the Midwife at weekend then?’
Me: ‘No, I was probably reading’
Them: ‘Oh......... did I tell you what Jim’s next door neighbours grandson did?’
Me: Kill me now.

I just try to be polite and breathe a sigh of relief when the conversation is over. What else can you do if you want to keep good relationships with relatives/acquaintances?

I'd say you're just not very good at conversation. I've never watched a soap opera in my life but I could still think of a million ways a conversation that started with that opener could go. From me saying I'm more into reading and starting a discussion about books to asking the person how long they've been watching Coronation Street and whether they have found the way it's changed interesting etc etc.

Conversation is two way. Traditional "small talk" topics are usually just a kicking off point, not the entire conversation.

Op you're not broken. You're just not the loud majority.
I'm the same but I don't pretend any more, why should I? I find any interaction draining so I limit it.
Just be who you are..