Can't do woman talk? Am I broken?

[viixie]

Okay so I'm a grown woman but I just find small talk boring I've never felt like I've fit in.

I've just been for a walk with some female friends and I've always felt like I've never fit in with females. I've always felt like the odd one out. They will chat and gossip about people and work and their lives etc and I don't talk as much. I have always been the quieter one but I find this kind of small talk boring. I feel like I'm there because I have to be to try and seem normal rather than to enjoy myself. It's an effort for me to try and fit in in this conversation. I am aware they are probably doing 70% of the chat and I'm meeting them back with 30% if you see what I mean. If I'm in a group of people I will let the others do most of the talking, I find it draining and uninteresting. Of course I pretend to be interested and try to involve myself but inside I find it draining. I'd rather be at home, I much prefer one on one company where I will then feel comfortable being myself and having a chat. I feel like I never really let anyone know or see the real me unless it's someone close like my partner or close family. I feel I am never fully relaxed or myself with anyone else.

Am I broken? Anyone else?

I wouldn't consider people talking about their work and their lives "small talk". Isn't small talk more like the weather, what was on telly last night, that kind of thing?

What pleasure do you get out of it? Can you explain?

IDK who asked this lol but for me, I was so crap at social skills when younger, that now being able to say acceptable things or whatever gives me a sense of achievement.

For instance, there are loads of building works going on in the 3 tower blocks of which my flat's a part. Today some women came to check on what remains to be done to my balcony. One of them I think has been managing all the works, in these 3 tall tower blocks.

I said 'It's all go, isn't it? You lot must get your steps in.'

They laughed and said 'we were just saying that.'

I got a sense of achievement from having said something somewhat relevant.

@viixie Gossip can also be useful in helping women know which male acquaintances to avoid etc. feministing.com/2016/08/23/gossip-as-an-act-of-resistance/

What pleasure do I get out of it- I guess a nice pleasant conversation uplifts me and I like to hear about people’s day. I do also have a small number of close friends who I would have in depth conversations with, but all the little school run chats, small talk when you see someone you know at the park-it’s just exchanging pleasantries isn’t it. Maybe it makes me feel part of the community, popular even if I’m being brutally honest. It’s nice to be nice and it’s nice to be liked. I’m a people pleaser though in general, maybe that’s part of it.

Ultimately OP it’s your life and it’s ticking away, if you don’t enjoy the walks then go on fewer of them. You’re not obliged to go, your friends probably think you are enjoying their company, if you’re not then just stay home.

I’m not keen on gossipy chat or chat about Tv, celebs, clothes, dieting etc which go with lots of large group get togethers. I much prefer one to one or very small group (no more than four of us) of people I have a lot in common with. Large groups and I become the silent listener of the pack as either don’t find the conversation interesting or don’t know people they are talking about or don’t have an opinion I want to share. In a larger group there are usually people who
are a step out from close friends to more acquaintances.

None of my friends talk about the TV or celebrities 🤷

@LibertyMole

That’s really nice Ivy.

It makes a big difference to people who feel lonely, disrespected or isolated.

I always remember back to when I had my first baby, was very isolated and used to hope people in the park would stop and talk to me. Those that did will never know what a difference it made to me, same for the staff in the local shops. Ive always been a chatty and friendly sort but I am especially conscious now that you never know what is going on in someones life, that your few moments of pleasant interaction (which is really saying, I see you, we are here and we share this planet, this place) can make a big difference. It can certainly do no harm. I think it vital for our shared future that we connect more, however that is and not drift into a sort of an atomised future where we all live in our own bubbles. Technology is trying to push us that way but we can be its master not servant.

@Grendalsmum

Random chatting makes people feel good. DS2 loves to chat ( l know, he's a bloke and everything! Shocker ... ) when he worked at Sainsburys his checkout queue was always twice the size of everyone elses because he took ages shooting the breeze with all the old chaps - his supervisor was lovely, she said she hadn't the heart to tell him off because all the old boys made a beeline for him to have a natter, but she did used to stick him on the self-scans during the busy times to stop the whole system grinding to a halt while he talked beards with someone for 20 minutes ...

Your son sounds wonderful! I used to work in a shop with a lady like that and while part of me used yo get annoyed that she didnt do as much 'work' as others, even my stupid 17 year old self could see that what she did was so valuable in all the ways that count and incidentally was not bad at all for business because of how she made people feel.

As an aside, I very deliberately don't use things like self-service tills etc, dont really ever shop online, etc. I want to have the human interaction and I want there to be all sorts of jobs for all sorts of people

Cheers the leafandnotthetree he loves talking, but he can go from "How's your day?" to finding out someone is allergic to cheese, hates Westerns and used to play in a jazz band in about 30 seconds flat so you absolutely didn't want to be in his queue if you were in a hurry! I'm sure his collegues used to curse him under their breath a bit when it was busy.
Chat is important, though - it makes people feel seen and heard, and we don't know what's going on in someone else's head - they might be lonely and sad and a bit of small talk perks them up slightly. There's a whole other thread about work colleagues not warming to the OP because she doesn't do small talk and how hurt this makes her feel, and loads of people piped up agreeing about how hard it was - so it could be argued that people who like to chat are doing a social service by attempting to jump start the conversation with ones who don't!

@Grendalsmum

Cheers the leafandnotthetree he loves talking, but he can go from "How's your day?" to finding out someone is allergic to cheese, hates Westerns and used to play in a jazz band in about 30 seconds flat so you absolutely didn't want to be in his queue if you were in a hurry! I'm sure his collegues used to curse him under their breath a bit when it was busy. Chat is important, though - it makes people feel seen and heard, and we don't know what's going on in someone else's head - they might be lonely and sad and a bit of small talk perks them up slightly. There's a whole other thread about work colleagues not warming to the OP because she doesn't do small talk and how hurt this makes her feel, and loads of people piped up agreeing about how hard it was - so it could be argued that people who like to chat are doing a social service by attempting to jump start the conversation with ones who don't!

I totally agree, there are people who are brilliant at making a connection, who have great social capital themselves and are great at making more of the stuff, of that glue that binds us together. They are the 'givers' in a social situation who take it upon themselves to extend themselves to other people. All unconsciously most of the time. I have a friend who can be a bit snotty about people like that but I consider HIM a bit lazy, allowing other people to do the conversational heavy lifting, which he gets to benefit from without really contributing much. Or when he does, it's something which other people might be very impressed by but only because he's had loads of opportunity to sit there and think! Kind of like the footballer who strikes and scores but only because others have done the right ground work

As an aside, I very deliberately don't use things like self-service tills etc, dont really ever shop online, etc. I want to have the human interaction and I want there to be all sorts of jobs for all sorts of people

I do the same

There's a whole other thread about work colleagues not warming to the OP because she doesn't do small talk and how hurt this makes her feel

Communication is a two way thing. I think that some people who want to "connect" get bored of talking to people who don't respond the way they want them to.

Example 1:
"Good morning, it's a lovely day isn't it"
"Yes"

Example 2
"Good morning, it's a lovely day isn't it"
"Isn't it lovely. I hung my washing out on the line today"

The chatty person is more likely to engage with the respondent in example 2

It’s basically internalised misogyny. We are all socialised to believe that men’s stuff-or what is perceived as men’s stuff-is important and women’s stuff is trivial.

And there is nothing that scares men more than women talking together, sharing experiences. So women’s conversations are trivialised so they can be defused.

Seditious pockets

I'm the same. I used to make an effort and pretend to be interested in the boring shit that people (because to be honest in my experience it was mostly men talking bollocks) but once I got to my late forties I lost all motivation.

When I was younger I did have a friendship group of mostly women who were getting married and having babies so that was all they really talked about for a few years. At the time I was single after leaving a long term relationship, enjoying myself shagging around and had no interest in babies (still don't). So I moved on and left that friendship group as they were boring me, I was seen as a strange person who wasn't complying with the norm and we had basically outgrown each other. It didn't help that some of them made it clear I was seen as immature and irresponsible and not as "sorted" as them so was a figure to be pitied and patronised. I was, btw concentrating on training as a GP and then going into public health medicine and working in Africa - so yeah, really immature.

Anyway, 20 years later and my friendship group are a mix of oddballs. Some married, some divorced, some single. Mostly childfree but a few with grown up children. Mostly involved in healthcare as that's my passion and none of us interested in small talk.

I'm the same and I feel like you're describing me. Now in mid 30s with children I feel much less pressure to pretend to me someone I'm not and try to not work myself up about it like I did for most of my life. There are literally a couple women in my life I enjoy talking with and spending (a small bit) of time with, but on a one to one and for a short period.

I'm also getting the impression that many of you are trying to be friends with the wrong people. When DD was little I tried various toddler groups. I found most of them quite cliquey and not very friendly. Then we moved house and I made some friends from a local toddler group. I'm still friends with them now, even though our children are all at university.

@BertrandRussell

It’s basically internalised misogyny. We are all socialised to believe that men’s stuff-or what is perceived as men’s stuff-is important and women’s stuff is trivial.

Well, I equally find men's small talk of football tedious, but part of the difference is that I'm not expected to engage or enjoy it. (I absent mindedly asked my husband when the episode of football would be finished last night). And some women are socialised to dislike women who aren't stereotypically feminine either, which it sucks to be on the receiving end of.

However... I have a group of female friends who I can discuss feminism, politics, literature, TV, news and our lives. But a couple of the group have an obsessive interest in relating tedious gossip about the siblings of people I don't even remember going to school with. That's not a behaviour I've ever seen men exhibit, and it's not one I relate to whatsoever.

For balance, I also note some male behaviours that I've never seen women perform to the same degree that I also dislike - namely theatrically performing their sporting tribalism - or more especially, men who aren't interested in football pretending to be to meet some macho standard.

@viixie

Okay so I'm a grown woman but I just find small talk boring I've never felt like I've fit in.

I've just been for a walk with some female friends and I've always felt like I've never fit in with females. I've always felt like the odd one out. They will chat and gossip about people and work and their lives etc and I don't talk as much. I have always been the quieter one but I find this kind of small talk boring. I feel like I'm there because I have to be to try and seem normal rather than to enjoy myself. It's an effort for me to try and fit in in this conversation. I am aware they are probably doing 70% of the chat and I'm meeting them back with 30% if you see what I mean. If I'm in a group of people I will let the others do most of the talking, I find it draining and uninteresting. Of course I pretend to be interested and try to involve myself but inside I find it draining. I'd rather be at home, I much prefer one on one company where I will then feel comfortable being myself and having a chat. I feel like I never really let anyone know or see the real me unless it's someone close like my partner or close family. I feel I am never fully relaxed or myself with anyone else.

Am I broken? Anyone else?

I felt like this. I just hadn't found my people. I now have several close women friends now, and we don't really do small talk, while at the same time it isn't all deadly serious either. We share our highs and lows, our grief, our obstacles; we're supportive, and we listen to each other - and most of all we have a hoot. Honestly, I don't know what I'd do without them.

Can those of you who profess to dislike "small talk" define what you class as small talk. And how do you break the ice when making new friends?

One person's "small talk" could be another person's proper conversation. Or it could just be something that just doesn't interest you.

I'm not interested in talking about TTCing, babies and toddler groups for example, or sport, but I wouldn't dismiss them as "small talk". They are just boring to me.

I find the MN concepts of what it means to be introverted kind of fascinating. Certainly diverse!! I think I'm very introverted but don't find smalltalk situations difficult. Or maybe I'm so introverted I'm not much exposed to it. Maybe I'm good at wandering off & not feeling bad about it. Also some people are so lonely, you know you did them a real favour to listen a while, this is rewarding. I've tried to teach DC this, too (random chitchat with strangers). Anyway:

Boring group convo: I can daydream. Or just wander off. Or spend time observing details in my environment. Can be very zen.

Half Listening to others but not having to contribute is so much more less exhausting than being asked to do 1-to-1 convo -- to sustain that & say useful things. Baffled by posters who find 1-to-1 easier.

tbf, I am curious about other people, how they make sense of their lives, and what their priorities are. I like keeping tabs on this.

Asking questions to get people to talk about what they think is an engrossing & challenging skill to develop. It's nice to know that you can be a good listener.

Most people just want to talk about themselves. I can't help but wonder if some of those disliking the chitchat are disappointed simply because they want to talk more about selves.

ps: I have a theory that attention-seeking is fundamental human need, that all humans do it, even the introverts; introverts don't do it less than extroverts, too. It's healthy behaviour & part of our many complex social behaviours that gives humans advantages.

So in case of those who can't abide trivial smallchat, it's the lack of focused attention on important-to-self content that makes them aware their needs aren't being met and generally feeling intolerant of the trivia. This "too trivial!" feeling will apply equally to introverts or extroverts.

@RampantIvy

Can those of you who profess to dislike "small talk" define what you class as small talk. And how do you break the ice when making new friends?

One person's "small talk" could be another person's proper conversation. Or it could just be something that just doesn't interest you.

I'm not interested in talking about TTCing, babies and toddler groups for example, or sport, but I wouldn't dismiss them as "small talk". They are just boring to me.

I think any class of stating the obvious that is also trivial is small talk.

The weather, what directions I took to get there, what happened in a TV show or a book. If an answer could be got by asking "what", then it's likely small talk, as a rule of thumb.

But why or how questions are a lot more interesting. Doesn't have to be super in depth - just not a remark that ANYONE who'd watched the news could make.

What pleasure do you get out of it? Can you explain?

Information - that occaionally is useful - possible because we've moved around and have to learn the areas.

One of the more important and dramtic examples was after an awful move. I had young baby and toddler and wasn't well.

We had to find all the information MW and HV but they couldn't seem to help with wider information and when we did track down phone numbers, webpages the infomation wasn't correct or services were too far away. We couldn't find GP, toddler groups, bf support- servcies or even the play equipment in main park which was tucked out of sight.

We went for a walk came across a building looking like it was gearing up for an event - there was a woman out front we made a remark about something started chatting someone else wander over - turned out to be manager of new children center and by end of the coversation we had the infomation we needed to make next year so much easier for us.

You'd think in this day and age it wouldn't be chance everyday conversations giving you information when we have the internet - but it's surpring how often it can give a starting point.

@thecatsthecats
Nailed it.